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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

727 replies

sea74 · 07/08/2012 10:15

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

OP posts:
PropertyNightmare · 07/08/2012 19:13

Of course it is foolish and irresponsible to have children unless YOU (not the state) are able to provide for them. That said, life is by and large shit for poor people and if you can't afford one child you can't afford five, so what the fuck, they might as well spoil themselves to as many as they fancy. Kids are free and when the government are paying I can see why it is tempting to just go ahead and get a little of something you want from life.

Krumbum · 07/08/2012 19:14

Stop reporting posts it's pathetic.
It's shocking that you blame a few very poor people for wanting to have kids rather than the wealthy who are avoiding and evading billions in tax. They are the reason for the problems not a few poor people ffs. We need to be taxing the rich a lot more and doing it properly!
What's happens if poor people get pregnant then? As has been discussed contraception is not 100% effective.

Abody · 07/08/2012 19:16

I don't really want to say exactly what I do & I'm not sure it matters. But it sounds to me like you're either hiring the wrong people or there's a flaw in the whole business plan. If you can't afford to pay someone a decent wage then you can't afford to employ them at all in my opinion. I don't mean to criticise you or your business personally, god knows we're all struggling, its just that I wouldn't hire anyone who didn't produce at least enough work for the company that they would be earning a decent wage for themselves.

LapisBlue · 07/08/2012 19:19

I hardly think it's pathetic to report a post, written in angry capitals, exhorting the OP to "fuck off back to her own country". Do you? Really?

wordfactory · 07/08/2012 19:20

Krum you can blether as much as you like about the poor and taxing the rich, but the truth is, things are as they are, and set, in the UK at least yp get worse IMVHO.

So given what we know of the situation versus what we would like it to be, we, as adults, have to make reasonable decisions. Stamping our feet and saying what we want, is a game toddlers play no?

For example, I wish I had femily living nearby so that I could have more freedom. But I don't. So I have to plan my own life and that of my family's accordingly...

Denise34 · 07/08/2012 19:20

I run a diner Abody. How much would you say I should be paying my staff?

Krumbum, there are limits to how much you can tax anyone. We cannot have more and more people reliant on the government in order to get by, because eventually the money will simply not be there.

GhostShip · 07/08/2012 19:21

Some of the comments in this have infuriated me.

I don't like how some people have sort of said that the quality of minimum wage workers isn't up to standard either.

I work bloody hard and I earn little. Im on not that much ninnies minimum wage and I know I am worth more. I have been told so but the company just isn't willing to pay. Despite the fact I'm doing the jobs the pompous bastards on 70k plus should be doing!!! But I do it without complaint!

Stupid belittling comments by people who haven't got a clue.

GhostShip · 07/08/2012 19:22

More than not ninnies ha

Denise34 · 07/08/2012 19:25

Who has said that the quality of minimum wage workers isn't up to standard?

GhostShip · 07/08/2012 19:25

Sorry I meant 'isn't worth much'.

Krumbum · 07/08/2012 19:26

I'm not saying tax people so that we can have more people on benefits. Just tax people so that we can properly care for people and make them more fit for work!
Wordfsctory. No it's not quite the same as that is it. We live in a democracy. We can vote, use political activism etc.
It's a tiny minority that is spent on people endlessly having kids. It is being overestimated.

Krumbum · 07/08/2012 19:27

How much would you like to pay your staff Denise? If the law would let you?

NovackNGood · 07/08/2012 19:27

As usual with this kind of thread the original topic is smothered by deflecting and personal insults by the leftie entitled me, me, me, my right for everything for nothing crowd.

Krumbum · 07/08/2012 19:28

No Novack not for nothing. For working.

iloveberries · 07/08/2012 19:29

^ what she said

Abody · 07/08/2012 19:29

I wouldn't tell you what to pay them, I'm just saying if, as you say, they aren't bringing in more than 6.08 an hour then something's wrong surely?

Trickle - thank you for coming along & being an excellent example of why we have benefits, I can't believe anyone would tell you you 'shouldn't' have kids (but then there are a lot of people on here I can't believe)

iloveberries · 07/08/2012 19:29

She being novak

GhostShip · 07/08/2012 19:29

Our place pays us as little as it can get away with, the only reason people stay there is because we love our jobs and love the people we work with. The turn over is so high its such a shame coz we've lost people that are amazing at their jobs because the company wont pay us more. Its a case of 'well someone will come along and fill your place'. If we complain, we just get told to find elsewhere. I was lucky enough to get a pay rise lately. I'm one of the few they'd probably not want to lose. But even that was minuscule and just to keep me hanging on.

There's thousands of people in my position and it isn't fair to say they're only worth that.

LapisBlue · 07/08/2012 19:30

"It's a tiny minority that is spent on people endlessly having kids. It is being overestimated."

Agree, Krumbum BUT...child benefit costs our government millions of pounds. The govt PAYS women to have children and your income can be pretty reasonable (although I understand that it's being capped now) and you STILL get it.

When we needed to encourage women to have children (after the 2nd WW for example) then I could understand it. But now...why? Can I have cat benefit, please?

wordfactory · 07/08/2012 19:30

Yes we can do those things krum.

But, the reality is that in the next few years benefits will go down in real terms, not up.
Wages will drop, or stagnate at best.
Food prices will increase.
Child care costs will remain high.
The cost of tertiary education will go up and up.

So...anyone considering having a baby needs to make that decision based on these facts.

Anyone having a baby based on what they want to true is being foolish at best, utterly selfish at worst.

GhostShip · 07/08/2012 19:30

Some employers expect the world but aren't willing to pay. It's ridiculous.

Denise34 · 07/08/2012 19:31

They are bringing in more than £6.08, that's why I employ them.

I would pay my staff whatever I needed to pay them, Krumbum. Just like any business.

iloveberries · 07/08/2012 19:31

Exactly lapis. An it's a recurring pattern unfortunately. So it goes on and on....

Trickle · 07/08/2012 19:32

Also just to point out, our system works the way we want it to. (discounting my own personal circumstances) There are other systems and ways things work - we choose a freemarket capitalist system based on neo-liberal principles. Most people when advocating this system talk about 'trickle down' so far that has failed and the money tends to just stay with those who already have it.

Someone doing an essential job - caring for those with demntia or Learning Disabilities for instance only earns minimum wage, as do the people that pick our food. Without these people our society would fall apart, but without enforced 'trickle down' via tax credits, housing benefit and council tax benefit they could not afford children - they may not even ba abel to afford to get to work.

Our system is not 'fair' and in our country we have a lot of inequality, which based on the spirit level seems to casue a lot of the socail problems people are complaining about. I'm not taking about communism, but our current neo-liberal one is a tiny bit broken - and a lot of people are still blaming the people doing the essential badly paid work for problems rather than looking at the bigger economic picture.

Binkyridesagain · 07/08/2012 19:32

I shall inform my DD that due to the fact she is highly likely to spend most of her life living on benefits that she should never have sex, not unless she can ensure that the man who marries her can guarantee that he will earn a high salary and have a job for life.