To wonder if you can "affair proof" your marriage?

[WoodlandHills]

Reading the relationships threads, I would say probably not.

And it seems that infidelity either on a small or massive scale (ie from a drunken snog to a full blown love affair for example) is rife.

I have never been cheated on - to my knowledge. But I know that if DH ever cheated no matter to what extent that I would most probably end it. He tells me all the time how much he loves me, how he has never felt this strongly for anyone, how much he fancies me and if he cheated that would turn everything into a lie and make a mockery of everything I thought we had. In past relationships I have cheated out of a lack of respect for my partner and because I knew I didn't really want to be with them anyway, but after 5 years with DH (2 married) I honestly only have eyes for him, of course I can see that other men are attractive but no one measures up to DH (sorry if that sounds corny but its true). I don't suspect him at all by the way, but I never want to go through this and if there is anything I can do to even slightly lower our risk.

When you hear about women who have caught their DHs cheating, they are often pole axed when they find out as they thought everything was rosy. So I am not naive enough to think that its only in bad relationships that cheating happens. so it seems "keeping your man happy" ( ) is not enough anyway.

So.... just putting it out there to see what people think. Have not put this in relationships as I think in AIBU there may be more of a balanced response.

[Whatmeworry]

Ultimately, it is absurd to say that people's reasons for having affairs are always connected to their perceptions of crap treatment by a partner

I didn't use the words "always" or "perception", I argued it was more likely if they were craply treated.

IMO though, what is far more absurd is to argue that you partners' infidelity will occur irrespective of how you treat them. Its a very convenient "get out" excuse though, so I can see the attraction.

[Ormiriathomimus]

A get-out excuse for what whatmmeworry? This is getting absurd- d
Someone has an affair and the onus is on the betrayed partner to work out how they failed? I think that is called victim blaming ...

[solidgoldbrass]

Ghostship: Erm, what's natural for some animals is not natural for others? I am aware that there are some cataclysmically stupid people who go on about a type of penguin which which appears to mate monogamously for life. These people are cataclysmically stupid because they go on about penguins as some kind of Proof that Great Bumface or whatever they call their imaginary friend intended all creatures to practice monogamy... but ignore bonobos, which engage in group sex and same-sex encounters. And snails, which are hermaphrodites. And all the other animals and all the rest of their general sexual practices, which include, variously, same-sex encounters, gangbangs, serial monogamy and eating their own young.

Modern (Western) monogamy has cult-like trappings; there are rituals to perform (spending a lot of money on Valentine's Day) and punishments for infidels (cutting up the unfaithful partner's clothes and/or violent assault). AMong other things.

[broodyandpoor]

yes thats true solid the cult like trappings are interesting, I wish youd write more about this Im gripped by this new take on it all!

[GhostShip]

What I'm saying is monogamy isn't just something we've manufactured. Which is what you tried to imply.

[solidgoldbrass]

Ghostship: Yes it is. It's completely manufactured for human beings. Not remotely instinctive. If it was instinctive, like eating or breathing or shitting, there wouldn't need to be either the array propaganda in favour of it or penalties for transgressing; people would just be doing it. Most people don;'t just automatically do it. Therefore it isn't natural at all.

[MNsFavouriteManHater]

Orm, you are right here

Don't be swayed by someone who knows nothing about you, and nothing about your H

[GhostShip]

Well I don't believe it is. If it was, why do we love an individual so strongly? I've never been able to love another, nor would I want to.

We can't manufacture emotions as strong as that.

[Charbon]

I can see the attraction of your argument more though, Whatmeworry. If you convince yourself that as long as you keep your partner happy, s/he will be unlikely to be unfaithful to you, you think it's all within your control. Or even using your extreme, as long as you don't 'treat your partner like crap' you might think that's an insurance policy of sorts. But where that fails is in people's lived experiences that completely defy that belief. I can understand why that's uncomfortable and even terrifying to some people. Not having control often is.

[Schoolworries]

If monogamy is not natural, then please explain why the depth of pain and devastation going against it can deeply damage entire families. You find a lot people who have experienced being cheated on are scarred for life- whether you were the partner or the child of one of the parents.

You cannot manufacture or trick people into that horrendous type of pain. Its very real. You cant convince people into that pain. its organic.

Frankly its no good categorising human behaviour into natural or unatural. We are quite obviously not a homogenous species. Our childhoods, world views, life experiences are all individual so we all approach and see the world differently. What may appear unnatural to you is actually the most natural thing in the world for me.

You cannot fit people neatly into boxes im afraid and claim they only act a certain way due to "manufacturing" (what ever that means) just because you fail to understand the appeal of monogmamy for a majority of the world. Its far more complex than that.

[solidgoldbrass]

Schoolworries: If you are told, repeatedly, that some things are good and some things are bad, then you might well come to believe this and it do you no favours at all. There are a huge variety of factors at work in how any individual copes with any traumatic event; people who never see one parent again after 'infidelity' might suffer because the 'betrayed' parent becomes a spiteful martyr and refuses to move on - or they might cope perfectly well with parents who are not bothered about monogamy in the least.

TBH people who let a breach of monogamy ruin their whole lives are inadequates anyway. It isn't nice to be decevied and let down, but once it's happened, the rest of your life is yours, and if people can recover from much worse things (loss of limbs, being subjected to torture, bankruptcy, longterm malicious harassment, etc) it's really a bit lame to suggest that breaches of monogamy are that big a deal.

[GhostShip]

Solid that doesn't cover the emotions we feel. You haven't mentioned that.

Funnily enough my friend thought the same way, he was of exactly the same opinion of you and didn't believe we should be with one partner. That soon changed when he fell in love :o

Not trying to say you've never loved, just sharing that

[solidgoldbrass]

The emotions anyone feels are that person's own responsibility. The thing is with emotions is that they are temporary, it's up to you whether you wallow or whether you move on, no matter what. Being at the school disco and having your official boyfriend ask someone else to dance can be very upsetting, but if you spend the rest of your life whining about it that's your problem.

[Schoolworries]

Solid- have you ever been in love?

You dont have to answer me obviously, but I cannot help but be curious.

[OhDearNigel]

No, you can't.

However lovely your home life, however wonderful and sexy and loving your spouse is, does not guarantee that you or they won't have an affair. The one thing you cannot have in a long term relationship is the thrill of the chase, the excitement of wondering what will happen. How do I know ? Because it was nearly me.

[Whatmeworry]

^A get-out excuse for what whatmmeworry? This is getting absurd- d
Someone has an affair and the onus is on the betrayed partner to work out how they failed?^

The only absurd thing is your deliberately twisting what I said, because you desperately want to believe that all the fault of the infidelity lies with the cheating one, and that it will happen irrespective of your behaviour.

Its a great cop out but its not true.

[solidgoldbrass]

Schoolworries: That simply isn't a valid question, because being 'in love' is something that people interpret in a very wide variety of ways. By my definition I've been in love lots of times. For a while, and then I got bored with it. I've been 'in love' for a while in monogamous relationships and open relationships and they have run their course. (BTW I am nearly 50 so I have had a fair bit of time to do this).
I rather expect your response will be 'But that's not reeeaallly love'. Which, with all due respect, will be nonsense, because it's such a subjective thing.

[messyisthenewtidy]

If monogamy were so natural there wouldn't be so many laws / social customs designed to keep it in place. And in the past there wouldn't have been so many punishments that act as a deterrent. If women were naturally monogamous no one would feel the need to stitch their vaginas up would they?

I mean penguins don't have any social codes to stop penguins with itchy webbed feet from waddling off do they?

That doesn't mean that monogamy isn't worthwhile for a gazillion other reasons. It just means that you have to work at it.

[Schoolworries]

I think the fact you "got bored" says it all.

[larks35]

I think that being "in love" is not the cornerstone of a partnership. Co-operation, co-dependency, compassion, empathy, familiarity, fun, humour, sex, respect, allowing each other to be moody, forgiveness...etc(not necessarily in that order). That is what makes a successful partnership. I used to worry about the possibility of my DP being unfaithful but know now that he wouldn't risk our family for anything. If he had a drunken snog or even shag, I would not break up our family over it. If he continuously lost respect for me, lost his sense of fun, lost his ability to know when I needed a hug or a "thank-you for being you" moment etc. then maybe we would part.

I think people put too much emphasis on sex and being "in love" all the time, rather than the things you really need in a lifelong partnership and this is possibly why divorce rates are so high.

[solidgoldbrass]

Yup. It says that monogamy isn't natural and most people who have affairs basically got bored.

[messyisthenewtidy]

I think the fact you "got bored" says it all.

That's a bit harsh on SGB. Maybe serial monogamy is natural for her. People tend to think that those strong feelings of true love should last for ever, but the reality is for lots of people is that they don't. There's no shame in falling out of love.

[solidgoldbrass]

Messy: Serial monogamy is not natural for me at all. Much more of a group sex kind of bird, really.

[messyisthenewtidy]

"Co-operation, co-dependency, compassion, empathy, familiarity, fun, humour, sex, respect..."

I totally agree larks, and if a couple have the good fortune to find all that in each other then that is truly fantastic for them. But what I've learnt over time is that you can get those things from other people: family, friends etc. (with the obvious exception of sex!)

It's just that, due to a whole range of economic and social upheavals, we've become isolated from those support networks and expect to get all those things from one person - our OP, which is a monumental ask IMO.

[messyisthenewtidy]

SGB maybe "bird" is the wrong word for you then!