to be angry and resentful at DH re. settling baby in the night

[MungoJumbo]

DD is 8mo and a terrible sleeper, she wakes every 1-2 hrs from midnight every night. I have tried absolutely everything to get her to sleep better except for CC which I just won't do. I haven't had ONE good night's sleep since she was born - that's 240 nights of hell!! I am bfing and also have a toddler with SN who goes to nursery 2 days a week. I am beyond exhausted and feel at the end of my tether but I am still highly functioning during the day, put lots of effort into playing/interecting with both DCs, keep the house clean and tidy (although we have a cleaner once a week so that doesn't take up too much time) do all the shopping and cooking.

DH has a stressful job and does not function well when he's tired. Sometimes I give him the monitor so he can help me in the night but half the time he doesn't even wake up when she cries (he sleeps in the spare room so he can get a proper night's sleep, the idea is that if he's slept well he can help me more in the day) and when he does come and help DD usually ends up screaming for ages as she's so used to me settling her and doesn't want anyone else, so I end up getting up anyway and just feeling even more angry. If he's got up once or twice in the night he is awful the next day, moping around saying how tired he is and just sitting on the sofa doing the bare minimum re. Interacting with the DCs.

I know put like that, DH does not come off well. BUT he is a wonderful DH, loving, affectionate, generous, caring, patient, tries v hard to make up for the rubbish nights by giving me a lie in at weekends, comes home from work to help with bathtime every night even when he is mega busy and its inconvenient for him, does a fair amount around the house (but not cooking as he is just not good and I prefer to do it anyway), and I know he feels frustrated that DD settles better with me.

I genuinely don't think he can help being a deep sleeper and being someone who doesn't function well when tired, he obviously can't bf and it just backfires when he tries to help at night. BUT I am still lying here seething with resentment as I have had 3 hrs sleep tonight and feel like there's no point trying to get back to sleep now as DD will just wake up in 20-30mins anyway. AIBU to feel like this and what can I DO???!!! I have been coping really well so far but just want to scream atm.

Sorry its long.

YANBU. You are sleep deprived.

It will get better.

There are points in the first year when it is just so hard - the longer you go without a proper night's sleep, the more difficult it is to function.

Completely disagree with anybody who says that a mother with a toddler and a baby can sleep during the day. Even if a toddler does sleep at same time as baby, an hour or two hardly makes up for a night with 3 hour's sleep. I agree that your child won't give you the sack for being a bit spacey, but looking after a toddler (particularly one with SN) and a baby requires huge levels of mental energy.

Also, I don't think my children were 'bad' sleepers, but they certainly had regular periods throughout the first 18 months (more alert around 4 months, teething, illness, etc. etc.) when they slept badly for 2-3 weeks. Very that CC solves all sleep problems for all babies.

Having said that, how do you put your baby to sleep at the beginning of the evening (sorry if you have already posted this and I have missed it).

Thank you everyone for your replies and suggestions. Sorry I'm finding it difficult to find the time to respond to everything but a few things:

• I really don't think she is bfeeding too much. She has FOUR feeds a day at 7am, 11am, 3am and 7pm, and takes about 10mins each time. She has breakfast, lunch and dinner. Prefers finger food so not a massive amount gets in, I always offer puree too and sometimes she'll eat a tablespoon or two of puree. She's much more hungry at 5pm and will always eat about 2 tablespoons of puree.

• She is in a bedside cot at night. I've tried co-sleeping but she wakes up more and searches for boob. I have tried sleeping in a different room (can't move the cot without dismantling it) and it didn't make any difference. I am a very still and quiet sleeper!

• when she wakes at night she will usually go back to sleep after a 5 min cuddle. If she is very wakeful and won't settle or searches for boob I will give her a quick feed and put her straight back down.

• if I don't pick her up (eg try shush pat etc) she will scream herself hoarse and get really angry. I have also tried PUPD and it also makes her scream with anger. When she was little I always tried to put her down awake but drowsy but she wasn't having any of it and would scream and scream until I cuddled/rocked her to sleep. When she was newborn she went through a phase of only ever sleeping on my chest.

• whoever it was who said they don't understand why I don't do any sleep training - I have tried everything I can think of EXCEPT CC which I have explained I personally believe is damaging and will not do it with my children.

• thank you for the messages of support and ""it will pass" which is all I can hang onto at the moment. I think the answer lies in getting DH to do more in the evenig and I go to bed early, and get lie-ins on weekends. I don't think I can bear him doing any more at night as after one wake up he complains all the next day how tired he is, and that is what makes me angry and resentful.

Finally, I know this is controversial but there is nothing wrong with my breastmilk and I find it very frustrating when people's answer is to switch to formula.

I never did any sleep training for night time waking - just fed/changed and put back.

However, I did do gradual withdrawal for both children at beginning of night when I had more mental strength. If there are some sleep associations that your baby is relying on, and this is contributing to waking and not being able to go back to sleep, maybe this would help to change them?

Never could get my head around PUPD.

To be clear 'fed to sleep' at night. So what I am saying is that for me, just doing the sleep training at the beginning of the night helped with night wakings.

merrymouse thank you I forgot to say that sleeping/resting in the day with a toddler is impossible! When he is at nursery I always rest/sleep while she is asleep but it doesn't last long! He doesn't nap any more so I can't rest at all when he's with me. He is very demanding and has learning difficulties.

In the evening we have bathtime routine etc, then bfeed, then DH winds her and puts her to sleep drowsy but awake. She is so tired she goes straight to sleep nearly everytime.

Its the only time she will go to sleep without being held. I would love for it to work at other times but she just screams. And I don't mean that she cries a bit, she screams until she is hoarse.

I would suggest that on a sat or sun you leave the house and let dh find his own way to settle her. He won't do it your way but with you not there you won't feel compelled to go and sort it out.

Yes it'll be fraught but he's her dad and you need to let him find his own way.

I had to do this with and both dh and dd1 were better off for it.

I know how you feel OP and YANBU. Resentment can so easily creep in when the really hard bit falls only on one of you. Very similar here and we haven't cracked it at nearly 3 (gulp). DH still sleeps in the spare room because he 'needs sleep' and like yours seems to function badly if woken up. I reckon it is more to do with our differing capacity to 'just get on with things' when tired.

Anyway, what has worked a bit here is me going out in the evenings - I would try that so that your dh gets some practice. As I tell my h, it is perfectly normal for a baby/toddler to want their mother more, we just have to persist through that and let him find ways of settling her. His efforts are just so half hearted (deliberately so sometimes??) that it seems easier for me to step in I suppose.

Good luck.

It's not controversial, love - there is nothing wrong with your breastmilk. I don't think the previous poster thought so either - but a lot of FFers think it leads to better sleep. So I'm sure it was said with the best of motives. Personally, I can't imagine much worse than waiting around for the kettle to boil at 3am!

If your baby is on 3 meals a day and breast feeding four times a day this sounds an awful lot of extra milk, no wonder she doesn't eat that much. I don't think changing to formula will make any difference as really it is the food they will fill her up at this age. My friend went through exactly the same thing.

I have read the whole thread but can't remember if you have spoken to your health visitor at all?

I was told to stop feeding during the night as at that age it is more a comfort thing rather than for food and that they should have had enough to eat during the day so to offer water rather that the breast.

I don't really know if thats correct or not or whether the advice has changed in the last few years but if she isn't always waking for milk then it won't be that helpful.

I hope you get some sleep soon!!

longtalljosie you don't wait around for the kettle to boil at 3am, you have a few bottles of already boiled water made up so you can just add the powder!!!

I taught my baby to self-settle (from drowsy to sleep) at 10 weeks. It took 3 hours of patiently repeating the process but it worked. They still have a while to go beyond this but it made a huge difference to us. Please persevere with it - it's not easy but it is fantastic when it works.

I have never made up formula but I thought the water had to hit the powder at 70 degrees C to kill off bugs?

Sorry - this is getting off the OP's point a bit though

Well this was 4 & 6 years ago so maybe things have changed, HV/midwife told me you could boil the water and leave to cool as long as you use within 24 hours, I had a pot with compartments for pre-meassured out powder so I just used to take all my bottles of water so could feed them whenever I needed to.

I was a mean mum once I stopped BF as the DCs just had room temperature milk as it wasn't mega warm from the breast (that was my theory anyway, lol!)

Yes - sorry a bit off thread!

"- if I don't pick her up (eg try shush pat etc) she will scream herself hoarse and get really angry. I have also tried PUPD and it also makes her scream with anger. "

...So who's in control here? She's frustrated because you are not dancing exactly to her tune. The only way she knows how to deal with that is by getting more frustrated and more angry if you didn't get the message the first time, and she has worked out what works. This will manifest itself in more and more areas in the next few months - getting in the buggy, going home from the park, not watching a DVD exactly when she wants, putting the 'wrong' DVD into the machine, having clothes and shoes on to go outside...welcome to life chez Divinyl, all totally normal and expected. But would you give in on these or would you try to do what is good for her, gently, and keep control on non-negotiables (eg wearing a seat belt)?

When you have had no sleep and feel like screaming back, it's bloody hard. But treat with calmness and firmness, read from exactly the same page with your DH in handling it, and persist. To try to calm myself down with situations like the above, I have attempted just to be really honest and explain. Even if she doesn't understand a word (but what if she can?!) Like (before bed): "If you wake up in the night you need to go back to sleep. Mummy or Daddy will help you go back to sleep and give you a cuddle. You used to have milk to help but we're only going to have milk in the daytime now, not at night". Or: "I know you are angry about waking up but you're fine and you can calm down, stay in your cot, and have a lovely sleep until the morning." If she does calm down, even a bit, praise her (still in the cot). She might get worked up again but give praise when she succeeds in calming a bit. Above all, try not to make night wakings interesting or reactive in any way. She will realise the angry crying is boring and hard work.

I think you're being over sensitive about some responses too. No one has said theres anything wrong with anyone's breastmilk! Some people have just said they found that ff worked well at a certain point.

Tbh though, it sounds as though the baby is getting loads of milk anyway- I would be more inclined to offer water at night so if she's thirsty that will be enough. If its not thirst but that she's needing breastmilk to get herself back to sleep then obviously water won't work; she's formed a habit which you either break (if it's causing too much stress or exhaustion ) or go with the flow until she decides to break it herself.

Really, it all come down to how far as parents you believe in letting her lead, or you lead. (and I'm not making any judgement here btw- its what works for you as a FAMILY) . Cant stress that last point enough. You also need do consider your other child and whether your exhaustion levels are impacting on how well you can cope with him. (again, I'm not saying it necessarily is having a negative effect)

A lot of parents say they deal with 2nd, 3rd or 4th child quite differently- precisely because it's a case of juggling everyone's needs.

I was more 'firm' (for want of a better word) with dc2, because I was returning to work earlier, and knew i wouldn't function with really bad nights. And also dc1 had needs to be met (getting to nursery etc) which meant sometimes dc2 couldn't 'lead' how things were. With dc1, I had longer off work and therefore felt less of an incentive to work as hard at getting into a night routine, and I let her 'lead' more. I also knew if I was knackered I could power nap next day while she napped

Ultimately you have to weigh up the needs of each family member , factor in anything you definitely don't want to do because you disagree with it (in ops case , cc and ff) and then decide whether there's anything you can do to break the cycle

Divinyl and janey these are great posts.

OP - I agree you are being over-sensitive, you have asked for help and people are offering their advice based on their own experiences.

It does seem as if you hagve resigned yourself to having no sleep and don't want to try anyone's suggestions or accept they may have a chance of working.

Mungo, your baby sounds like my boys were at that age. I bf them both, had bedside cot and brought them into bed with me. They would wake up and grizzle a bit and then go back to sleep with a cuddle and/or milk. I disagree with those who say it sounds like she has too much milk and offer formula/water. It sounds perfectly normal to me to have that number of feeds plus solids during the day. Mine weren't big eaters at that age so it was nice to know that they were getting enough calories. I also disagree with the idea that you are not 'in control' enough and need to 'teach' or 'train' her.

Basically we did what you were doing and we now have two lovely, happy, healthy boys who sleep fine and eat well and have no long term issues! :) Just thought you might like to hear that there is a positive outcome if you choose that route and that it doesn't last forever! For now, to help you cope a bit, trying getting a few early nights with your DD. Is there anyway that your DH could sleep elsewhere so that he gets a good few hours sleep and then you can hand her over for a few hours in the morning before he goes to work and go back to bed? I found that just getting some good, uninterrupted sleep made a huge difference to my outlook for the day.

If that were my child I would switch to formula and give way more solid food and a dummy at night

I have a LUmie bodyclock which does what Divinyl suggests - it is brilliant, too good for DS. Your eyes droop and you're gone in ten minutes. But I am putting it in my back pocket for when bedtime gets stressier.

Also OP I think people are also suggesting formula so DH can help, not because of suggesting anything with your breastmilk. We interchanged breastmilk with epxreessed and formula when I was feeling shite with never a whimper from DS - sounds like you LO may be more discerning though

I never noticed a link between how much DS ate and sleeping, if anythign he slept better when he ate less. And I don't think the numebr of feeds sounds too bad - all babies are different. Mine used to feed every two hours throughout the day and then sleep through at night after 9 months.

I also used a dummy one in three nights in the bad periods to get some sleep when all he wanted was comfort. It worked in the bad times but because I wasn;t stuffing it in his mouth to go to sleep initially or at all during the day he never got upset about not having one. He used to go back to sleep and spit it out (and stay asleep). I used to hate the idea of dummies but I must say they have a place.

Twill get better - I never go to bed early when I should either :-(. DH was up with DS for an hour and a half last night, before I even woke hee hee