London Childhood

[daisiessunflowersandtulips]

In Laws are adamant we should move out of London when the baby's born. Apparently it isn't a "good environment to bring up children in". which they wouldn't know because they never bloody visit. I am to this because I grew up in London alright, but they seem to think I was terribly deprived.

Here are the things I missed out on (and which my in-laws always bring up)
-playing in the street. Neither I, siblings, friends, cousins, ANYONE I know who grew up in our parts of London (leafy zones 2-4) ever did this.
-knowing who our neighbours were. Well we knew who the ones on either side were and they didn't have kids. We didn't know any of the other kids to say hello to and frankly that was fine by me.

Here are the things we got
-being allowed to get ourselves to and from school at a younger age than DP and his siblings and other friends outside London because schools comparatively closer, roads busy in a suburban sort of way with traffic lights not an A-road busy way.
-going to wonderful parks to play, Heath, Golders Hill, Clissold Park, etc. Parents came with when we were younger and then we could go by ourselves.
-being able to go to and from friends houses independently by 9 or 10 if if were short walking distance or 11-12 if it were longer walk or bus by ourselves and not have to hang around getting lifts
-loads of museums, cinemas, art galleries with kids stuff on

Now London might not be to everyones taste and I TOTALLY get that. But you're telling me it's worse than some pissy town in the middle of nowhere with no transport links to bring up a child? Seriously?

I think there are pros and cons to both. I grew up mainly in London and we lived there until DD1 was 6 then we moved to a village in the Home Counties, where we still live now 6 years later.

The advantages of being here are having a much bigger house, a lovely garden and good schools and I think the children are having a more wholesome childhood than they would have done in Central London. However I love London and we go there often and the museums, art galleries etc are better than anywhere else. The good thing for us is we are only an hour away so can visit often.

I think London is also better if you have lots of money, whereas outside London you can have a better quality of life at a lower cost.

Anyway OP does not need to decide now. You can always move out later if you decide you want to.

It's the sort of thing where there is no right or wrong. But I think you do generally know when you're in the right place for you. I have lived in the UK and abroad in cities, small towns and villages.

From the time I got married/had children (in London) I knew I wanted to live where we live now. It took us a while to organise moving here but I'm content here in a way I never was in London. I can't really imagine living happily anywhere except here now. I realise I'm a bit extreme btw!

I lived in London prior to having children, we moved the year before we started a family - we lived in a first floor 2 bed flat with no parking which was tiresome enough to manage with a car full of groceries let alone a buggy and child too. We moved an hour out of london to a 3 bed cottage, great schools and more facilities within walking distance than we had in London. I don't regret it for a moment - every time we go back in to see friends I breathe a sigh of relief as we leave the city and get back to the country.

So if you have a decent sized house that you can afford to keep with reduced salary (either one not working or paying for childcare) then go for it, you may change your mind though so I wouldn't make a massive issue of it with your in-laws if I were you. Having family near by can be a massive help when you have small children - your life is going to change a lot, don't assume they are wrong just because you don't agree with them now.

There are good specific reasons not to want to live in London. Mate is leaving in search of a decent size flat rather than her current shoebox and because her DS's most likely secondary school has a very serious gang problem.

But the (mostly older) people who treat a London childhood like deliberate child abuse, even if you've got a nice little terrace house and a perfectly good school (or the means for private schooling) are just plain wrong.

Just a quick post as need to be elsewhere but had to say...
My mum, who always said we should move out of London with the children, because, among other things but way out front of her reasons...your children will become delinquents, drug users, fail at school, blah blah blah...just admitted she was wrong. Hallelujah
She has seen with her own eyes how decently dd and her mates, who live in inner London, go to local state secondary, have turned out. What incredibly nice, funny, polite, well adjusted, socially aware, amazing, and gorgeous people they are. For me, this is because not of in spite of where we live.
I am not a Londoner by birth or upbringing but have chosen to live here all my adult life (25 years) and think it is the most amazing place to bring up children.

I live in zone 2. I can hear Big Ben chime. I can see the London Eye from the end of my road. There are buses every few minutes to take me into town. But I never bloody go into town because despite it being a tiny distance as the crow flies, because the bus takes at least an hour to get to Oxford Street (for example) and if I do, I have to get there and back before rush hour or I'll never get on with the pushchair. So I'm stuck with a crappy local high street full of fried chicken and pound shops. It is limiting and isolating, and I can't wait to move to a place where every journey isn't a battleground and where bus drivers and passengers say hello and thank you to each other.

If I could afford to live in a naice area of London I would without question purely for the parks and the museums. Ds would do it for the London Underground (which he is a fan of).
I home educate though so Im not considering the schools aspect.

Rhubarbgarden - how far and how long would it take you to walk to wherever in the centre as maybe its quicker??? (an hour on a bus is what it takes me to travel 20 miles by bus!)

DP and I were thinking of moving out of London for exactly the reasons others have mentioned - bigger place for less money, garden etc. But we'll be sticking to east London for a while longer. No, we don't have a garden but we are lucky to have a nice flat in an area which has (rather unexpectedly) become rather trendy recently. Shops are 5 mins away and always open, station is 5 mins away, work is a fairly easy 45 min commute, DS1's school is 5 mins away and has been brilliant with him (ASD and statemented). Turns out the nice leafy area we were looking at is top rated for complaints in relation to special needs provision. And even another 15 mins on the commute is an extra two and a half hours a week away from the family. DS1 is only 5 so maybe our feelings will change but at the moment the London childhood is working well for us.

I'm quite jealous of all you Londoners reading this thread. I feel for the
opportunities my DDs haven't had. I see the low level racism and the way everyone in secondary school has to conform to an identikit type. I did some teacher training in London and it was refreshing. OP, stay put. You can retire to the country if you wish in the future.

Getorf I challenge your Weston-Super-Mare with my nearest beach which is -

Bognor Regis

Now you know why this thread is making me weep with envy

Rhubarb - I just googled and discovered Big Ben can be heard up to 4 miles away so apologies because obviously you therefore might be living 4 miles from central London which is perhaps a little too far too walk regularly (even with a pushchair - I do miss marching along with a pushchair, much more fun for me than walking with school age kids who moan if I go too quickly!)

Id still rather live in London money permitting. I live in a small uninteresting town - complete dullsville. Considering moving to local bigger town which is admittedly grittier/more crime but at least something happens!

lol at Bognor.

I have never been but it can't be as bad as Weston, it can't be.

I grew up in the countryside and found it incredibly boring and tedious as I grew older. Fine when I was 6 but I was desperate to leave by 12. Now happily live in London and raise our DD here.

I've been to Weston. I thought it was rather nice, which tells you all you need to know about Bognor

Sorry for thread hijack, but see, even living near the sea is not all it's cracked up to be

I think it's about what suits you.
I live on the edge of a city in a leafy suburb.
We have access to top hospitals/excellent schools/theatre/buses into town every 5 minutes-15 minutes into city centre/country side bike rides 10 minutes ride from our door/well maintained local and country parks. I spent 3 years as a sahm without a car and I could walk to everything-swimming/drs/even town if it was a nice day.
My kids play out on the street and are in and out of each others houses/walk to school on own. I know 7 families on the street well and lots of people to say hello to/pass the time of day with.It's not the same everywhere in this suburb though-a busy road or mainly elderly residents can stop that.

I couldn't stick all the ferrying around that my friends do who live 20 minutes away in the country do and I'd miss the garden too much to live in the centre where another friend lives.

I visit London regularly and I have taken my 3 kids around on public transport there and stayed in friend's flats with lots of families in a child friendly area there. My kids loved the sights/museums and so on but said it was too noisy with too many people! I like it but like to get home. Just think it's madness that people are scrabbling around in tiny flats when they could have a lovely house with garden somewhere else. I appreciate that some jobs only exist in London, but I have friends who are teachers and drs-jobs that could be done anywhere. Fair enough if London's where you're from.

My area is not as multicultural London, but it's a lot better than 1970s Newcastle where I grew up-I didn't meet a non caucasian person until I was in secondary school.

It is definitely about what suits.

I live in a house with a large garden and outside space in a small city, and would much prefer to live in a flat in London. The garden is just a waste of space to me, and a burden.

I find that there are lots of nice things about being here (the beach and lack of rush being the only two I can actually think of)

Fish and chips?
Virtually empty roads when it is not tourist season.
Whitby to look at the goths and buy jet.

If I won the lottery I would be torn as whether to move to North Yorkshire or to London.

I supose if it was the £140 mil I could have a home in one and a weekend place in the other.

Threadwatcher yes it's too far to walk, especially with a pushchair (and I do do a lot of walking). I used to cycle everywhere, pre-kids, and I know that some people are happy to put kids on bike seats or in those little trailer things, but the idea of crossing Elephant and Castle with one of those gives me the heebie-jeebies quite frankly.

The thing is, whilst the museums and galleries etc are indeed wonderful, it's your local bit of London where you actually spend your day to day life, and many inner London areas just aren't very pleasant. Mine is full of people dropping litter and has a really dog-eat-dog atmosphere. I don't want my children to grow up thinking that's normal.

Just a little point. Living in London doesn't automatically mean living in a tiny flat without a garden.

I have a very nice 3 bed terrace with a lovely garden and fab loft space which we'll convert into a 4th bedroom and 2nd bathroom at some point. And it didn't cost £500k!

It all depends where you live - if you're seduced by an overpriced area (i.e. East Dulwich) then you will. My little bit of London is nowhere near as expensive and is not Murder Row either!

I think Yanbu to want to bring your kids up in london, there's nothing wrong with the place. But I am slightly pissed off that you consider anywhere outside london to be a small village with no public transport system. I live a 10 minute drive from Leeds, Bradford and 20 minutes from Sheffield. Whilst my location is lovely, with beautiful countryside surrounding my house, I'm certainly not cut off from civilisation. My kids can play out in the street, climb trees, play in nearby fields, and regularly encounter foxes, herons,'rabbits, hares and even deer as they are playing. They love the countryside, but also enjoy visits to the city, museums, etc. oh, and we are only 2 hours drive from london, should we ever wish to visit, which we haven't so far!
This is the only thing that does occasionally annoy me, that many people in London look down on the rest of the country as somehow an inferior place to live- its not. I've lived in London, and nothing would persuade me to live there again!

Agree with Limelight.

Its not a choice between house with garden in the sticks or poky flat in london!

I live in a house with garden.

Its not a choice between house with garden in the sticks or poky flat in london!

Exactly. I have a two-storey flat with a garden too.

And also think it's madness that people are scrabbling around in tiny flats when they could have a lovely house with garden somewhere else. Not everyone needs or wants a lot of space or a garden. Some people make the decision to live in a small space in order to have the benefits of living in London.

I'm trying not to think too negatively, but I can foresee a time when DP and I may have to leave our big flat with garden for financial reasons. If/when we do, I'll be damned if I'm moving to Croydon or wherever just to have the same amount of space. I'd much rather sacrifice some space and stay in our current neighborhood (Zone 2, villagey atmosphere, friendly neighbours and loads of cafes etc where I'm welcomed as a regular, beautiful parks, two of which are nature reserves).

I've lived in London for 17 years, 8 of those I've been bringing up children.
I'm moving this Summer and I cannot wait. For me London is not the best place to bring up children. The pollution, the crowds, the dirt, lack of school playgrounds and space, road rage.. All sorts. I've made the best of it that I can but I am running out of it. All my children have beautiful new schools to go to now, the council facilities in our new area are so much better and it's cleaner. So much cleaner. Thank goodness!!

It is true that the very close local environment is key.

We live surrounded by chicken shops and pound shops.

But on a beautiful tree-lined street that makes me happy every day. Pale, clean and green. And it feels very different.