London Childhood

[daisiessunflowersandtulips]

In Laws are adamant we should move out of London when the baby's born. Apparently it isn't a "good environment to bring up children in". which they wouldn't know because they never bloody visit. I am to this because I grew up in London alright, but they seem to think I was terribly deprived.

Here are the things I missed out on (and which my in-laws always bring up)
-playing in the street. Neither I, siblings, friends, cousins, ANYONE I know who grew up in our parts of London (leafy zones 2-4) ever did this.
-knowing who our neighbours were. Well we knew who the ones on either side were and they didn't have kids. We didn't know any of the other kids to say hello to and frankly that was fine by me.

Here are the things we got
-being allowed to get ourselves to and from school at a younger age than DP and his siblings and other friends outside London because schools comparatively closer, roads busy in a suburban sort of way with traffic lights not an A-road busy way.
-going to wonderful parks to play, Heath, Golders Hill, Clissold Park, etc. Parents came with when we were younger and then we could go by ourselves.
-being able to go to and from friends houses independently by 9 or 10 if if were short walking distance or 11-12 if it were longer walk or bus by ourselves and not have to hang around getting lifts
-loads of museums, cinemas, art galleries with kids stuff on

Now London might not be to everyones taste and I TOTALLY get that. But you're telling me it's worse than some pissy town in the middle of nowhere with no transport links to bring up a child? Seriously?

Your inlaws should mind their own business and stop being so snooty & controlling.
Wish i had been bought up in London as i live in a small town, and there isn't much for children to do & explorer here like there is in London.

You can compromise on bedrooms, living space, and gardens but you can't compromise your children's education. It's this that has persuaded even those of my friends who are committed Londoners to move out.

If you're not in the catchment area of good state schools - especially secondary schools - and you cannot afford private school, you will end up in Oxford/Cambridge/Winchester, along with all the other escapees. These cities aren't cheaper for housing, but they are for education, because you don't need £30k of net income per child to be sure of some decent A levels.

I grew up there, ruby, and I have never been so pleased as I was on the the day I moved out.

It is (to me) the most beautiful place on earth, but it is a horrible place to live. No jobs, poverty is rife, casual racism everywhere, crap schools, crap infrastructure, you have to drive miles to get out anyhwhere.

And the roads! I learned to drive in rural Devon, but I am shocked when I go back there now, I am only used to city driving and motorways really, so to go back to tiny country lines with bends and 1 in 4 hills is a bit of a shock!

I like Wanstead though.

I really want to move to London (I work there in the main anyway) but I can't really because my dd is starting A Levels and wants the continuity of staying at the same school. I started a thread about a year ago saying I wanted to move to Harlesden, and it was fairly split with those saying fuck me NO, and yes go for it.

Country lanes

I grew up in the suburbs, think North london it was great i loved it. I dont think i was deprived at all

Things go in cycles. I remember when Bexleyheath was posh! Bloody hell, wouldnt walk round after dark now! Bexley Village, perceived as posh, again, at night it's horrible (too many pubs, too many affluent 20 somethings).

I suppose, when I was growing up, round this way, back in the 60's, it was fairly new (post war) estates - predominantly occupied by white and blue collar workers. Postmen, GPO, and every other house had a policeman in it. Old chap said to me it was time to close up his business as "the oiks from Plumstead are moving this way"

My brother made a good observation. People of my parents generation were first time house owners and they moved out of London (eg Brixton) to get away from areas that were becoming increasing ghettos, out to the 'burbs.

As we get more and more diverse in our culture these things are so much less noticeable to people of my age. We've always been in such a multicultural society. I don't tend to register peoples origins, but a few of my parents friends, now in their late 70's/early 80's have moved to Devon to get away from what they perceive as the creeping tide of immigration seeping up from Plumstead, Woolwich, Deptford into the 'burbs.

Ok, some bits of London, you slam your central locking on as you drive through, others you still leave your door unlocked.

This is always a bit close for my liking sites.google.com/site/londonstreetgangs/gang-lists/south-london-gangs/woolwich-boys but by and large you don't see it. Even though it's under the surface.

Most large towns must have the same old crap underneath?

London is by no means the only place with dodgy schools. As an academically successful graduate of a 'crappy' provincial school I am well aware of this fact.

Again, another assumption that London = crappy schools.

I work in secondary schools across the country, and there are successes and failures everywhere. Do London schools feel different - yes, sometimes they do. As someone else posted (a teacher I think) the kids are in some cases more savvy. But that doesn't mean they're getting a bad education.

And rightly or wrongly, the extra-curricular options and external interventions given to London schools are like nowhere else. I work in music education and the larger volume of projects opps and professionals working in London schools is marked.

Ex-Londoner here. Now residing in a 'pissy little town'. I also grew up in one.

I'd like to point out that plenty of non-city children use public transport to get to and from school and to meet up with friends at the weekend.

I walked to primary school with a friend when in infants and took myself off to school several miles away each day from the age of 11.

I grew up in London and now live in a commuter town 25 mins form Kings Cross.

The town I live in is clean, has very good social activites for the kids and great schools - also has a good range of shops. If I want to take the kids to London / when they are teenagers and want to go by themselves it's a short journey on the train.

I would never go back to London, it's crowded and dirty even in the expensive north London suburb my mum lives in.

Here the kids have plenty of space to ride on scooters to school and town and also we have really fab cycles routes which are great for families. Biggest mistake was not moving out sooner.

I must admit the countryside makes me really nervous getorf I'm used to knowing I'm 5-10 mins from a top hospital, a supermarket, a library etc I'm definitely a city bod.

I'm not the best voice on Harlesden. My close friend was living there when her neighbour was shot outside his door. But I wouldn't say thats Harlesden specific and whilst he didn't deserve it he wasn't exactly an angel who spent his time with monks. Wanstead is nice, a couple of my SILs live there but we had a nightmare with DD2s school, the new neighbours and going from being 10 mins to 40 mins from work made a surprising difference.

You should come live near me up Hackney . Or if you like North West I'm quite a Kilburn fan.

I also resent this idea that I and the thousands of other London parents who don't pay for private are compromising our childrens education. Absolute rubbish, eldest DCs went to a school that was failing, is now an academy, they have excelled and there are a good percentage who like them are predicted solid A*s. They will then go to the local college which churns out 4 As regularly.

I agree, Ruby, there's so much snobbishness and prejudice about London schools.

There are terrible schools and great schools everywhere. And kids at school in London have great access to sport/cultural facilities, as well as the advantage of spending their schooldays mixing with children from all sorts of backgrounds and cultures. I'm not saying there aren't cultural mixes elsewhere, but London is particularly rich in that sense.

Oh, and I also live in Hackney but lived in Kilburn when I first moved to the Smoke, and retain a great fondness for it. In spirit it is very similar to Hackney, I feel.

ruby I live 25 mins fast drive from the nearest hospital and it makes me twitch too. That's about the only thing I miss plus fantastic PT of course.

I think I am rather cynical about 'good' schools. I think a lot of parents think that once you get a child into a good school that is it, you can relax. My dd went to a (on paper) excellent selective and oversubsrcibed school in leafy Cheltenham, and it was crap for dd. She moved to a school in a neighbouring city that on first look most MNs wouldn't consider, and she has thrived there. So I don't really think the school catchment angst is really worth it, personally.

True, GetOrf. I think a lot of how a child does at school is down to the child and their family and support network outside of school.

*you can't compromise your children's education. It's this that has persuaded even those of my friends who are committed Londoners to move out.

If you're not in the catchment area of good state schools - especially secondary schools - and you cannot afford private school, you will end up in Oxford/Cambridge/Winchester, along with all the other escapees. These cities aren't cheaper for housing, but they are for education, because you don't need £30k of net income per child to be sure of some decent A levels.*
but thousands of children do well at London state schools, and anyway your 'decent A levels' are certainly not guaranteed just cos you are at a 'naice' school.

I am raising my beautiful Inferiorettes in sarfeast Lunnon, where their complicated ethnicity passes virtually unnnoticed in the school playground; where DD1 has just finished at a pretty ordinary state primary with a clutch of level 5 SATs, and is about to go to a secondary which is distinctly On The Up; and where I am at home.

Neither DD1 nor DD2 appears to have stabbed anyone yet.

Neither DD1 nor DD2 appears to have stabbed anyone yet.

MI, shall I bring ds round to play again with his extensive collection of Nerf guns and encourage them to play out on the street?

I grew up in a large industrial town and we played in the street. I now live in a lovely rural town and my children cannot play in the street because the pavement is very narrow and the traffic is fairly busy. Despite living in much more idyllic surroundings than I grew up in my children have less experience of playing out on their own and I do feel they are missing out.

Moving out of London will not mean that your children will suddenly start living in an Enid Blyton novel. If you are happy in London you should stay there. Your inlaws have had their say in where they brought their children up, where their grandchildren are raised is none of their business.

Ignore your in laws and do what is right for your family and jobs. I assume they are saying this to get you to move closer to them. I grew up in a small fishing town in Yorkshire and had idyllic childhood but moved to London for uni at 18 and never left. We live zone 4 25 mins to Big Ben. Know all our neighbours in our cul de sac which all kids play out in. We have massive park 3 mins walk away, kids in outstanding ofsted primary, we like the ethnic mix and the fact we can walk to a multiple of restaurants, gyms, clubs, cinema etc etc, have big garden which kids are trashing now but on the downside secondaries are a bit iffy. For us is perfect and we won't be moving so it depends what your focus is. Ours was affordable leafy green suburbia (yes such plces do exist)and the rest fell into place.

LadyClarice are you my neighbour? She has an air of a lady about her.

Oh gawd don't bring up the stabbing thing. It was only a few weeks ago on here I was told that dirty filthy London was a hotbed of violence and crime and I shouldn't complain when my children are mugged and stabbed every time they leave the house.

Realistically I have little comparisons to make as I haven't lived out of London apart from a few short spells in Jamaica which is entirely different.Yes there have been some low level experiences of crime but I mean FFs its so minor I can't imagine that it would be enough to upset anyone, let alone move. Admittedly I've always lived in the rough parts and my experiences reflect this, yes having a black son does make me a bit unnerved by the statistics but I would rather be as rough as old man balls than live in the country and not know how to cross a main road or say boo to a goose (mass generalisation I know but I'm actually just thinking of friends idiot son).

Where do you live Jules? (jealous).

MI and Edam. They could practice rioting in the garden. My two would love that! Possibly they don't need to practice though. Have they already been damaged by my London ways...

Bonnie you are absolutely right and I think this is really the point isn't it? The OP's in laws are BVU. Where OP wants to live and is happy is where her DC will be happy too.

In our own ways, we're all saying the same thing I suppose. We all make assumptions about the places we don't live in. I make all sorts of probably incorrect assumptions about commuter land and the south-east in general, just as non-Londoners make lots of incorrect assumptions about Lewisham where I live.

Live and let live I say.

I friend of mine grew up in a small town in rural Germsny. She is now raising her children in a UK city, as am I.

She is very matter of fact: " yes there are fields in the countryside but how many times will your child run up and down that field? Maybe three times then they get bored and go and watch TV"