London Childhood

[daisiessunflowersandtulips]

In Laws are adamant we should move out of London when the baby's born. Apparently it isn't a "good environment to bring up children in". which they wouldn't know because they never bloody visit. I am to this because I grew up in London alright, but they seem to think I was terribly deprived.

Here are the things I missed out on (and which my in-laws always bring up)
-playing in the street. Neither I, siblings, friends, cousins, ANYONE I know who grew up in our parts of London (leafy zones 2-4) ever did this.
-knowing who our neighbours were. Well we knew who the ones on either side were and they didn't have kids. We didn't know any of the other kids to say hello to and frankly that was fine by me.

Here are the things we got
-being allowed to get ourselves to and from school at a younger age than DP and his siblings and other friends outside London because schools comparatively closer, roads busy in a suburban sort of way with traffic lights not an A-road busy way.
-going to wonderful parks to play, Heath, Golders Hill, Clissold Park, etc. Parents came with when we were younger and then we could go by ourselves.
-being able to go to and from friends houses independently by 9 or 10 if if were short walking distance or 11-12 if it were longer walk or bus by ourselves and not have to hang around getting lifts
-loads of museums, cinemas, art galleries with kids stuff on

Now London might not be to everyones taste and I TOTALLY get that. But you're telling me it's worse than some pissy town in the middle of nowhere with no transport links to bring up a child? Seriously?

Well, we live in the sticks and if we didn't have family and friends here and could afford it, I'd have moved to London like a shot. Even though I'm a country girl and would miss it, I think my girls have missed out on so many opportunities being all out here.

Things we could have got living in a nice big city -

Both DDs are into ballet. We have to go 20 miles to the nearest decent ballet school and now DD1 has even outgrown that. We are now looking at making the trip to London a few times a week. This is nearly 70 miles, so no mean feat. I see children who started their ballet in London and have had so many chances which my DDs have never had.

This isn't just ballet, of course, it's an example of a universal problem of living in the middle of nowhere. Friends of mine who do gym are in a similar position. I teach piano and one of my pupils who has done very well has just got a Saturday place at one of the London music schools. But she is limited somewhat by the awful journey and will now have to spend weekends travelling. DD2 was also offered the chance of a West End musical. We just couldn't do it; it would have cost us way more than she would have earnt and I would have had to give up my job to facilitate it.

So, from ballet to music to science to sport, whatever your kids get into in the future, they will have every opportunity at their disposal in London. You won't find yourself with a 2 hour train ride to get to do stuff. You can take them to museums, cinemas, theatres, musicals, plays, galleries, lovely restaurants, all without it being a huge day's expensive rigmarole.

Children in the country don't play out much nowadays. I used to as a child, yes, but those days have sadly gone. All you are left with is having to ferry your child everywhere, even to see their friends, because there is no public transport after 6pm and transport before is a bus stop half a mile away that comes once an hour.

Yes, the country is nice. Especially if you are retired and want soothing walks with the dogs (actually scrub that, we get run over by all the cyclists who have to bike because there is no public transport).

But for vibrancy, opportunity, fun, and a lovely cosmopolitan upbringing, I wish we'd had the opportunity of a happening city. My girls have so many unfulfilled dreams because they just weren't possible where we live.

yanbu
it's fantastic for children in most areas of london.
roads/pavements are relatively safe, I let my 5y old to go to the corner shop to get a pint of milk and a bag of haribos , one traffic light to cross. nearest park with fabulous playground and playing fields 5 min walk, one strert crossing if you use a well lit alley. nearly everything is within walking distance, some things a bus ride away. I know all my neighbours, lots of children in the area. they don't play in the street, but in the nearby park.

I loved living in London.

If we'd had more money and could afford a garden in London we'd have stayed. But we couldn't!

It's really nice having your own bit of outdoor space with a small child, I think.

I can't stand the noise, pollution and sheer volume of people and buildings - my idea of hell.

Used to love it in my teens tho!

I grew up in central London.
I am now raising my kids at the edge of a regional city.
I disagree with your In Laws because it is NOT POSSIBLE to generalise about anywhere.

What I will say is - make sure your kids can get to a corner shop under their own steam from the age of 7 or you will spend your whole life in a car.

Jumping - haha. Reminds me of the other day when we took one of DH's friends who is about 60 out for dinner to Stroud Green Road (bit north of Islington, for the uninitiated).

This friend, who is very working class and lived in London all his life said:
'Stroud Green Road, cor blimey, can't believe we're going to a restaurant in SGR, in the sixties you wouldn't come down here without a weapon, no word of a lie'.

daisies Don't worry there are still plenty here, holding out against the immutable law of moving to Cheltenham/Oxford/Cambridge/Winchester. I have stopped going to people's 'I'm leaving London' drinks, fed up with listening to them blarbing on about how much they'll miss it.

Encouragingly, some new neighbours in my street with young DC just re-moved back to London after their initial exodus to a historic town with no poor people in it. Said it was too conservative .

MrsBaldwin, some years ago DP and I were looking to rent a flat in a very lovely period building in Clerkenwell. We didn't because we couldn't justify the expense. But you should have heard my father when we were thinking about it "your grandparents worked the soles off their feet to move out of clerkenwell and then you go and move back in!"

Mrs Baldwin, my friends are moving there too. I actually did the maths, and couldn't see where the financial benefit (once you factor in train travel, probably needing two cars, definately wanting a garden because what's the point if you don't and extra childcare to cover extra commuting time) comes from.

London London London! I agree with you OP. London is awesome.

The kids in the country or out of London get to do lots of outdoorsy stuff but to do it (and to go to other activities, social stuff, or even jobs) have to be ferried about by their parents all the bloody time.

When I was a kid I enjoyed many of the freedoms you describe (parks, getting around independently etc) growing up in the provinces.

I also had the freedom to play in streams, build dams, play in the woods all day, play in the street with friends and neighbours that you didn't have

Swings and roundabouts I guess. I suppose we all think what we knew as kids was "normal".

I think that if your kid grows up with love and support, they will be happy wherever

Ps you do sound a tad defensive btw. I am assuming they only want whats best for you all

I'm so glad to read this thread.

DSS is coming to live with us next year (from Cape Town) and my DBro keeps making unhelpful comments about how dangerous London is (compared to CT! yeah, right...). DBro lives in Yorkshire, DN goes to a private school as the local state schools were deemed to rough and DSis in law teaches in one of them

We live in Zone 2, SE London, very close to the river, big nature park nearby plus another huge park, decent(ish) school, 2 tube stations, loads of stuff to see and do. The local kids play out in the street and in the communal gardens... I would have given anything to grow up here, and I grew up in a "nice" University town.

London is an amazing City, multicultural (important for us, as English is not DSS's first language), vibrant, busy... I love it, I think DSS will love it and he's street smart enough to stay safe.

I love London and have lived there in the past.

I would not choose to raise my DCs there.

It's a combination of liking where we are now, being close to both sets of GPs, and wanting to raise the DCs in a town/village area as opposed to a city.

ILs made the same choice when DP and BIL were children.

That's not to say that I think raising DCs in London is a bad thing, it's certainly the best city I've been to and I really love it.

We are bringing our DC up here and I totally agree about all the benefits of London - can't think of anywhere I would rather live.

Do you think your ILs want you to move out to near them? Mine tried that when the DC were tiny, but we weren't having any of it

YABU for 'some pissy town'.

I read some rural schools have taken to busing children into london for the day so they can see diffrent types of people other than white and middle class

And for your inlaws information their are plenty of places you can live in london that are in the suburbs Moving out of london is not always what its cracked up to be my mate moved to margate thinking she was going to have a nice life with the kids by the sea ...

Drugs are at epedemic leves also because of the sesional nature of the place unless you work for the council jobs are very hard to come by all year round i went up to see her and my word its a dump

I have 2 DC and live in London. I think it's brilliant for all the reasons previously posted-
TONS to do (museums, parks, fcityfarms, sport, history, markets etc)
good schools (in my area at least!)
multicultural environment, DS has friends from all backgrounds/cultures
interesting people, no gossipy/villagey/small minded types
easy to get around by tube/bus
lots of (well paid) work for DP and I

But we are moving oop north soon. Only because we need a bigger place to live and cannot afford anything big enough in a "decent" area.

Londoner here, living now in North Yorkshire, two Ds's.

I miss London so much that sometimes it physically hurts. Both my Ds's are born and brought up here. Both love London.

I find that there are lots of nice things about being here (the beach and lack of rush being the only two I can actually think of) but the thing I feel my boys miss out on that I had in spades is opportunity.

What I mean by that is the chances to go places and meet people and do things for free or cheaply. When the world of work and teenaged socialising comes around my boys will have nothing like the chances I had.

I also worry as we live in a 99.9% white English town with no chances to be exposed to the fantastic variety of cultures I grew up in. This really saddens me and there is an inherent low level racism here that the local people believe is the norm. I work hard to make sure my boys don't pick it up.

If I were you, stay put as long as you are happy. The grass isn't always greener.

I had a London childhood, and did play in the street and know neighbours (zone 3). But we moved to large town an hour away after ds1 was born, spurred by combination of a job op for me and a 15 year old from our street getting stabbed to death for looking at a classmate. We couldn't afford anywhere nicer without moving to the very edge of London, and being walking distance to the centre of a big town has worked well.

Tbh I miss London terribly, the food, our friends, the parks. But we have a 3 bed with huge garden for the price of our 2 bed finsbury park flat. The local hoodies have manners instead of knives, and we feel dcs will be safer.

But I could not, ever, live in some village with one bus a day. Far too isolating for me, and for the kids when older.

MrBoJanagles have you any idea how utterly utterly ridiculous and narrow minded what you said about bussing kids into London to look at "different people" sounds?

People outside London aren't all knuckle-dragging small minded idiots you know

I started my childhood in London but unfortunately my parents made the move out to a town 45mins out of London when I was about 6. It was truly horrid and I moved back to London as soon as could at 16 and finished my education up here. I never had any conscious decision making I just knew I would never stay there and I have never been back.

Obviously it could be down to the soulless commuter belt town and small minded types in the town we moved to and I understand that not all small towns are the same. However, that is my experience.

Personally, I made a deliberate choice to bring my dd up in a "pissy town" but each to their own. There are certainly some advantages to life in London, and as an adult, I do miss it sometimes. However, on balance I prefer the advantages that my "pissy town" has to offer. And I think dd will have far more independence here than she would ever have in London!

One thing I don't understand though is many people move out of London to a small village so that the kids can have a big garden and run around and be healthy.

However, from what I see kids end up spending inordinate amounts of time in a car being ferried around. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I have seen examples of this and it seems to defeat the object.

lula I hoe you don't mind me asking but did you ave a thread about DSS a while ago? I remember one about an OH's chid in Africa and I wondered how it ad turned out.

Londoner here

Had a great childhood...played out in the street all the time and also spent many days running around the Essex countryside.

My kids enjoy the same sort of childhood but with even more opportunity like free bus travel, free music lessons, free language study etc...

There's just so much to see and do and so much of it is free.

Id love to live in london and bring the kids up there. Theres so much to do, free stuff as well, excellent transport, no need for a car and lots of parks. I'd love it love it love it. Stay where you are op! Or house swap with me