London Childhood

[daisiessunflowersandtulips]

In Laws are adamant we should move out of London when the baby's born. Apparently it isn't a "good environment to bring up children in". which they wouldn't know because they never bloody visit. I am to this because I grew up in London alright, but they seem to think I was terribly deprived.

Here are the things I missed out on (and which my in-laws always bring up)
-playing in the street. Neither I, siblings, friends, cousins, ANYONE I know who grew up in our parts of London (leafy zones 2-4) ever did this.
-knowing who our neighbours were. Well we knew who the ones on either side were and they didn't have kids. We didn't know any of the other kids to say hello to and frankly that was fine by me.

Here are the things we got
-being allowed to get ourselves to and from school at a younger age than DP and his siblings and other friends outside London because schools comparatively closer, roads busy in a suburban sort of way with traffic lights not an A-road busy way.
-going to wonderful parks to play, Heath, Golders Hill, Clissold Park, etc. Parents came with when we were younger and then we could go by ourselves.
-being able to go to and from friends houses independently by 9 or 10 if if were short walking distance or 11-12 if it were longer walk or bus by ourselves and not have to hang around getting lifts
-loads of museums, cinemas, art galleries with kids stuff on

Now London might not be to everyones taste and I TOTALLY get that. But you're telling me it's worse than some pissy town in the middle of nowhere with no transport links to bring up a child? Seriously?

I love London but wouldn't live there. We live in a little village near a couple of small towns and not far from several big cities (Bristol, Newport and Cardiff) so fel we are close nough when we want to go to museums/ tecniquest/ shopping/ concerts/ sporting events etc etc but get to live in the beautiful country side. Kids school is brilliant, proper village school with just 30 kids in each year.they do forest school etc. we go blackberry picking, or just walk about the woods etc. Peace and quiet at night, have (accidently) left my front door ajar all day and nothing happened, frequently leave my car unlocked, the top 3 "crimes in village newsletter were things like 'man spotted in field' ' dog poo left in bush in bag ' etc.

I'm talking about perceived risk and what would make me move out edam

Nobody has picked up on Topbananas' 'coloured person' !

Where your children go to school is where they will want to come home when they are adults. If you see yourself living elsewhere when your children have grown up, fair enough. If you want to live in London and have them bring all their mates over, bring them up in London.

I would be back like a shot.

BikeRaceRunningRaceNoSkiing - well yes, SW1 is 'proper' London, it's also out of the reach of normal Londoners now! Why not play scaring yourself, look at property simlar to the one you grew up in and see what they are worth now - could someone with similar jobs as your parents had now afford it? (Please ignore if you are the DD of a Baronette or similar... )

And that really is the issue - the house prices for London have forced middle class people to choose between living in what were before 'working class/rough' areas or moving out to the suberbs to get the standard of living the would prefer to have in Central London.

Jesse, how did I miss that? And topbanana says he/she lived in London

And that really is the issue - the house prices for London have forced middle class people to choose between living in what were before 'working class/rough' areas or moving out to the suberbs to get the standard of living the would prefer to have in Central London

Sorry but this made me laugh!

Poor MC people being forced to live in former working class/rough areas or move out.

What about the working class people that have been forced out of areas they grew up in? MC people moving into those areas is what pushed up the prices. Look at east dulwich. When I was growing up it was what it was-bit of a dump situated next to peckham. Now look at it and look at the prices. Who can afford to buy there now? Certainly not people that grew up there.

Yes - see also Islington and Fulham. Both places where 40 years ago an outsider would be scared to walk around and the policemen went in pairs (I'm not being unkind, have friends my Mother's age who grew up in each of them). Now ordinary people can't afford to live there, there are massive waiting lists for council housing, even shared equity demands a salary far above the average. And if anyone dares to object to this on MN, they get contempt from people who tell them they ought to move to Stoke on Trent 'because I can't afford to buy a house in Fulham either'.

Ordinary people have been driven out of London as the wealthy push up house prices in traditional middle class areas and the middle classes push up house prices in traditional working class areas. And successive governments have flogged off council housing. WTF are people supposed to do? Successive governments have also pursued economic policies which have driven employment towards the South East - are people supposed to live in Doncaster but someone spend £8k or more a year commuting to London?

Hear hear Edam!

And Balham, and Shepherds Bush, so on and so on - you could name dozens and dozens of districts where the same applies.

Christ that is extraordinary to hear that Islington and Fulham (Fulham!) used to be rough areas!

I think it is rather narrow minded of your IL's to say that children cannot be raised in London - to my mind I would love to have raised dd there.

As it is she was raised partly in a very small rural town (hell hole) and now in a small city (better, but not perfect).

There was an interesting thread a few weeks back about moving into commuterland - a lot of women regretting that they had moved from London to places about an hour commute from London, and feeling as if they had the worst of both worlds.

Another Londoner here! Surely there's no hard and fast rule about where is suitable for child-rearing and where isn't because there are so so many variables. So your ILs are BVVU.

I'm from a northern industrial town, DH is a country boy, we choose to live in SE London with our 2 DC. This isn't because I think it's better for them although lots of the reasons people have given for London being great I absolutely agree with. We're here because we like our local area and we put down roots here before the DC arrive.

There's a myth that London is always very transient. That you live in an isolated way in homes that are short term etc, before heading out to 'settle' in a proper town somewhere to be a 'family'. That just isn't my experience - we know our neighbours, we're active in our local community, our DC and ourselves have lots of opportunities here. This little bit of SE London is my community thanks and very nice it is too (and I don't live in anywhere particularly posh incidentally).

The most important factor in our decision to stay here however is work. DH in particular is bound to central London for his career. He's a brilliant involved Dad, and the reality of our moving out is a long commute for him, and the DC having less time with him.

We could live in the most idyllic place in the world and it wouldn't make up for the DC not having their Dad around for homework / bedtime / breakfast. London is just a place after all, people are more important.

Clissold Park at memories of things I did there. I know my DH because of hanging around Clissold Park as a teen.

I was brought up in London, my parents and most of my grandparents were brought up in London and now my DCs have been brought up in London. I've nearly always known my neighbours well and I and my children have always played out.

People who don't live in London will always tell you its rough and dangerous (particularly the areas I've lived in) but I like it, there are so many positives. London is my home and I love it, we never have to plan things. DH and I were watching the cycling last weekend on tv, within 20 minutes we were there in the crowd, we always do things like this. There are so many more opportunities.

DH and I tried to 'move out' we went to Wanstead, and we lasted 6 months before getting back to Hackney. We knew a few people who moved to Devon/Cornwall and went to check it out for ourselves. There would be no jobs suitable and being somewhere with one bloody shop or that we need to 'order it from London' meant out 2 week holiday shortly halved.

i thnk london is a wonderful place to bring children up in if you use what is on offer and make use of the wonderful parks and commons

i moved to the suburbs thinking it would be better for ds i was pregnant at the time of selling/buying

how wrong i was, so little going on for young children and the facilities were crap schools were very good but were i am now they are fantastic

moved back so much more to do for children, 3 wonderful parks close by and very community orientated which we love there is always something going on there was no community spirit at all in surburbia (in my experience) and 30 min to the natural history/science museum ds loves both what more could we want

Also just to add to edams post. My family are 'old east end' we've lived around Hackney, Shoreditch and Canning Town before the sort of gentrification that can bee seen now. My parents and 1 of my grandparents have now moved out to Upminster home of the old and they cannot get over the fact that places that people looked down on them for living in are now 'cool' and desirable. Large portions of the family really struggled to move out to Dagenham which they thought was the height of sophistication, they find it unbelievable how things have changed.

DH and I were living just along the Upper Clapton Road about 12 or 13 years ago when it was named Murder Mile. Our flat was grotty but most important cheap enough as we had 3 DC. Its still not exactly naice, but our old neighbour has just sold for slightly under £600,00! A 3 bed garden flat which is run down and couldn't be afforded by most of the middle classes.

London is a whole other market to the rest of the country and it really fucks me off when people say if you can't afford it move, why should I have to move its my family home! Its only because DH and I have managed to climb the slippery class pole that we are now middle class and can afford a house.

I think London is an amazing city to grow up in. I grew up in London and raising my dd here. Along with NY, one of the most vibrant, cultured, exciting cities in the world in my opinion.

lol at ruby moving out to Wanstead.

If you only lasted 6 months there what on earth would you have done if you had moved to Devon?

Bollocks. I hate this 'city bad, country good' mentality. There are good things about bringing up kids in the country or suburbs so I'm told although I don't really believe it, but there are good things about city life too. Including off the top of my head:

• being able to get themselves around on public transport
• seeing and interacting with people of all appearances/colours/cultures etc.
• access to amazingly rich cultural experiences
• beautiful parks and open spaces, not to mention wonderful city farms and gardens, if you're worried about your kids not knowing about wildlife, food etc.

I live in London (zone 3). There are kids 'playing out' in the streets here every day (which actually doesn't always look particularly safe/desirable to me, and they're a bit noisy and troublesome sometimes, but it definitely happens!). And we know and chat to our neighbours.

I guess it depends on the area, maybe in the leafy/affluent parts it's different?

When I was growing up, parts of South Ken were pretty rough because the houses had been badly divided up into bedsits
and Notting Hill - NO WAY was I allowed up there.

MrsDeVere yes, that was me. You gave some v helpful advice and support on my thread. He's not coming over until next year, lots of planning and organising to do first. I'll keep you updated!

daisiessunflowersandtulips thanks, we think/ hope he'll settle in ok. He's a very resilient kid

stay where you have old friends and you feel at home, that will be better for your kids than being dragged to some vile commuter town or hicksville where you will have no mates, and will probably hate, which will rub off on them.
London is fine if it is your home, and your kids will grow up happy, smart and knowing instead of dopey and racist, like so many country kids. oh and one more thing, in the country the levels of teenage drinking and drug taking is unbelievable, and it is largely through boredom. At least in London there is loads to do apart from that.

Getorf We didn't really think i through!

DH and I had never been to Cornwall or Devon. We knew about 5 families (of course none had grown up in London) who moved there. We had a 'what is this promise land they speak of mentality' also DH grew up partly in Jamaica and got a bit into the idea of being near a beach, but fuck me we were certainly not in Kansas anymore and the roads omg I was so relieved to get home.

Some people obviously adore it, but you couldn't make me move there for love nor money.

tell your inlaws that!