Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be apoplectic with rage over this?

163 replies

BenedictsCumberbitch · 03/08/2012 13:44

Myself and Mr BC own a house that we used to live in that we now rent out. I'd say we are decent landlords, attending to any problems quickly as possible and availing ourselves to him 24 hours a day 7 days a week in case of emergency, despite also paying a letting agent do the leg work in such matters. Anyway there was a problem with the boiler which the tenant decided not to inform us about and get fixed himself (which is another thread altogether) and then asked to be reimbursed , for the sake of harmony we agreed to refund him the money based on the understanding this would not happen again. I went to the house today to collect the receipt and hand over the cash only to see that on the front door of MY PROPERTY he had stuck several National Front stickers with slogans such as 'Pensioners before Immigrants' and 'Proud to be British and White'. He wasn't in so I left the property after taking a photo on my phone and ringing the letting agent.

AIBU to consider giving him his notice over this, I'm raging that he thinks this is an acceptable way to behave and that he would deface our property in this way?

OP posts:
KickTheGuru · 03/08/2012 14:13

The thing is that the constitution protects against "hate speech" or racism. It's not only morally repugnant, but it's illegal. The BNP may be a political party but I don't think they are LEGALLY able to advertise "white supremacy" and demolishing other races or any political behaviour that contravenes human rights and our constitution.

I get that in the grand scheme, this particular case hasn't crossed the line of being actively racist however, perhaps a letter reminding said tenant that not only is it against the constitution and against human rights (the right to live without threat or fear of discrimination based on age, race, religion etc), it's also not their home and as the owner, you request that they tread lightly when openly advertising their "right to free speech".

A belief is a choice in the god you believe in. It's not an active, loudly proclaimed statement against another group of people or persons based on their age, race, religion etc. That is discrimination. And it is illegal.

Just sort of - treading lightly kind of thing. Be careful not to be too tolerant...

Sastra · 03/08/2012 14:13

Err, a lot worse. A quick google if you can stand it.

BNP have cleaned themselves up a lot recently to make them a viable mainstream party. The most liberal of the NF advocate repatriation of non-whites. I've heard lots worse that I'm not willing to give the oxygen of publicity.

WorraLiberty · 03/08/2012 14:16

Guru it is the tenants home...it's just not his property.

And he's not doing anything illegal

Dawndonna · 03/08/2012 14:16

Having been beaten up by the National Front, then I really understand where you're coming from. However, I don't think, legally there's a great deal you can do. You may be able to ask him to remove the stickers. You can perhaps give notice when the contract is up.
I would ask the neighbours about noise issues and things. A neighbour of ours rented her property last year. Fortunately she did come and ask and we were able to tell her about the screaming, swearing and how many times the family had been reported to the police/social services. Do ask.

Sastra · 03/08/2012 14:16

KickTheGuru - we don't have a constitution??

mayorquimby · 03/08/2012 14:17

The threshold for hate speech is very high. It is essentially where you are directly advocating specific violence (either a specific act or against a specific person) holding racist views and expressing them are not illegal in any way. The manner in which you express them may breach public order offences but me stating I believe whites to be a superior race would not even come near that.

mayorquimby · 03/08/2012 14:19

Also discrimination in your personal life is in no way, shape or form illegal

Original poster
BenedictsCumberbitch · 03/08/2012 14:20

I don't know what to do now. Do I just bring the tenancy to an end, ie not give him a reason for it and hope he goes calmly, accepting it's one of those things that happens (he has been on the property since 2009 so had a good run of it for a private tenant - we've been in 3 properties in the same time) or do we evict based on something the inspection throws up ie pets etc and risk him going all skinhead crazy bastard on the property and trashing it. Or do we ask him nicely to remove the stickers, hope he does so and fingers crossed we have no further issues.

OP posts:
KickTheGuru · 03/08/2012 14:20

foreign card

Sastra · 03/08/2012 14:22

Basically it's going to be hard to get him out based on this, because it's not illegal. However, I'd get him out over the pet issue, as I truly believe it says an awful lot about him that he's a strong enough advocate of these beliefs to have them on the front door (who does that anyway, scruffy at best!).The NF is closely allied to neo-Nazism. you have enough grounds to evict for other reasons.

KickTheGuru · 03/08/2012 14:22

But hold on - an Olympian was sent home for "racism" because he called anther group "mentally retarded". That's intolerance but not racism.

I think the racist card and the discrimination card if applied to liberally in some instances and not enough in others

Where is the dividing line?

Sastra · 03/08/2012 14:24

But that's another issue, no? If you look up the NF and what they stand for its quite clear. The Olympian thing is a grey area. There's nothing grey about the NF (it's all white Grin)

WorraLiberty · 03/08/2012 14:25

It's a tough one OP

If you use the fact he has animals...he may well get rid of them

If you find fault with the inspection, I expect it will have to be fairly major in order to secure an eviction after 3yrs of living there.

You can't use the boiler thing because that ship has sailed.

But you need to be very careful not to let him know that you're trying to evict him because of his personal/political beliefs.

Because that is discrimination and ironically, could lead to you getting into trouble Sad

Sastra · 03/08/2012 14:27

And if that Olympian characterised a group of people who were defined as a group by their ethic group then that IS racist - e.g., white people are retarded.

DISCLAIMER -- I have no idea what this story was or what the person said.

KickTheGuru · 03/08/2012 14:29

He said the footballers were retarded - not the whole group of people.

I agree you can't evict him for his political beliefs but surely if my political beliefs are to kill all known squirrels and I put up banners in the street (not my property) and run about threatening squirrels, that I am stepping on their right to live a non-discriminated about life (in a park)?

KickTheGuru · 03/08/2012 14:29

Sorry - treading lightly Grin

Socknickingpixie · 03/08/2012 14:30

some tenancies may have clauses in them about antisocial behaviour and or racist stuff. do yours?

Original poster
BenedictsCumberbitch · 03/08/2012 14:33

Oh bollocks. This is gonna get complicated isn't it?

OP posts:
Sastra · 03/08/2012 14:33

That's a good point about the ASB? What kind of area is the house in? If it were round my way it would cause a bloody riot...

Original poster
BenedictsCumberbitch · 03/08/2012 14:33

I'm not sure socknickingpixie I never thought it would be anything I'd need to worry about.

OP posts:
cheesenpickle · 03/08/2012 14:34

Hi

If your tenant has completed the fixed term part of their tenancy just give them notice. You dont have to give them a reason. I rent a couple of properties, one of our tenants lived in incredibly filth- whilst you might think its his perogative the dirt was getting so bad we thought even if it was deep cleaned we would end up having to replace taps etc. We gave him notice with some reason other than he was a dirty bugger- the place hadnt been decorated in 10 years so we told him we were gutting the place (we had tried tactfully before that suggesting he clean up- he was most out) and off he went. If your tenant is in the fixed term, i would get the stickers removed, wait till the fixed term is up and give notice. If hes been there since 2009 has he been paying the same rent- our tenant had paid the same for 5 years and now its been relet the market rate is £225 more a month- putting up the rent might get rid of him! Seriously though if you want him to go without bother say you are renting it to family/ redecorating the whole place anything but the truth.

Sastra · 03/08/2012 14:34

Oh, in that case Kick it sounds a bit silly. But I'd be surprised if there wasnt a bit more to it that hasn't been reported on. People dont get sent home without good reason!)

WorraLiberty · 03/08/2012 14:34

I agree you can't evict him for his political beliefs but surely if my political beliefs are to kill all known squirrels and I put up banners in the street (not my property) and run about threatening squirrels, that I am stepping on their right to live a non-discriminated about life (in a park)?

Haha that did make me laugh! Grin

If the tenant ran about threatening anyone he would be acting illegally but displaying signs saying... "'Pensioners before Immigrants' and 'Proud to be British and White'", isn't quite the same thing.

Sastra · 03/08/2012 14:35

How long is left on the tenancy?

KickTheGuru · 03/08/2012 14:37

But what if I am an African squirrel or from the east and the big "proud to be white" was insulting and hurtful to me?

Yeh I think it's because it was done on Twitter to be honest. Twitter is a minefield because they have no idea how to work the T&C's and the legalities around discrimination and abuse etc