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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be apoplectic with rage over this?

163 replies

BenedictsCumberbitch · 03/08/2012 13:44

Myself and Mr BC own a house that we used to live in that we now rent out. I'd say we are decent landlords, attending to any problems quickly as possible and availing ourselves to him 24 hours a day 7 days a week in case of emergency, despite also paying a letting agent do the leg work in such matters. Anyway there was a problem with the boiler which the tenant decided not to inform us about and get fixed himself (which is another thread altogether) and then asked to be reimbursed , for the sake of harmony we agreed to refund him the money based on the understanding this would not happen again. I went to the house today to collect the receipt and hand over the cash only to see that on the front door of MY PROPERTY he had stuck several National Front stickers with slogans such as 'Pensioners before Immigrants' and 'Proud to be British and White'. He wasn't in so I left the property after taking a photo on my phone and ringing the letting agent.

AIBU to consider giving him his notice over this, I'm raging that he thinks this is an acceptable way to behave and that he would deface our property in this way?

OP posts:
Sazzle41 · 03/08/2012 13:56

I'd be checking the tenancy agreement re notice periods right now if I was you. He should remove them and pay for cost re restoring the door surface or take it off his deposit if u get rid. With doing the boiler w/out asking you on top of this, he sounds like trouble to be honest & the pattern seems to be he does as he pleases with YOUR property. ('in human behaviour, once is happenstance, twice is a pattern'), some famous psych quote. Is he holding NF meetings in your property too (personally that would really alarm me/I'd be worried for my neighbours too).
Loving your name by the way ...hope you sort this.

Spuddybean · 03/08/2012 13:57

oh. my. god!

Not sure what i would do (we also rent our house out sometimes), can you give notice for political opinion?

Tee2072 · 03/08/2012 13:58

YABU yes, the stickers are vile, but your tenant is allowed to have them up. If removing them damages the door, or if the house gets vandalised due to them, that's why you have a deposit and insurance.

YouOldSlag · 03/08/2012 13:59

Isn't there a law about incitement to hatred? could you get him on that and get a nice ethnic family in instead? (and tell him you need the room for the Masoods).

DumSpiroSpero · 03/08/2012 13:59

I think it's true that whilst it is your property it is his home.

I wouldn't see any harm in either you or the landlord perhaps mentioning your concerns that someone may take umbrage to these statements being displayed and decided to put a brick through the window, in which case it would be down to your tenant to foot the bill for repairs (although not sure where you'd stand legally on that front). If you can get him to look at it from that perspective it's probably your best bet.

Otherwise it's your prerogative to serve him notice if you want to - you don't need to give him a reason do you?

In my brief spell as a lettings agent (hideous job- would rather clean public toilets than do it again) I came across a landlord who was Jewish and refused point blank to have German tenants - there are some funny old people out there!

KickTheGuru · 03/08/2012 14:00

It's defacing property and "proud to be white" errs on a bit of intolerance.

The first thing that pops into my head is if the house gets that reputation for being "that BNP" supporter and a subsequent tenant gets abuse as a result.

AmazingBouncingFerret · 03/08/2012 14:00

As a landlord myself I'd of been more pissed off about him breaching the no pets clause tbh. You stated you didnt want pets in there and he's gone against your wishes.

His political beliefs havent gone against anything in the contract.

MeerkatMerkin · 03/08/2012 14:01

Our tenancy agreement stipulates that we must not display any form of advertising on the exterior of the property - including political posters etc. I'm pretty sure our tenants' agreement (also own a property elsewhere) says the same. Does yours have such a clause, do you know?

Paiviaso · 03/08/2012 14:01

YABU

He is allowed to have his opinions. Do make it fully clear that he may not stick stickers on your property, and that he must pay for any damage caused in their removal.

FartyMcTarty · 03/08/2012 14:01

It sounds like after the inspection you'll be able to take your pick of reasons to give notice and will be within your rights to do so.

Being a LL sucks. I hate it.

KickTheGuru · 03/08/2012 14:02

Also typically, the outside of the house remains the landlords to upkeep and maintain (gutters, walls etc) - even the garden unless agreed that the tenant will upkeep.

If said stickers are outside the house and on the front door, it's actually not technically part of the "rented" bits that the tenant is free to do what they wish with.

They have more flexibility with doing what they want on the INSIDE of the house than on the outside.

mayorquimby · 03/08/2012 14:02

I think yabu.
I wouldn't want to go down a route where by tennants could be evicted for their beliefs.

BenedictsCumberbitch · 03/08/2012 14:03

I'm considering writing a note to the neighbours either side who we got along with reasonably well ie we'd nod to each other and exchange pleasantries if our paths crossed and see how they feel about him as a neighbour. Or is that crossing boundaries and a bit of a no-no?

OP posts:
Olympia2012 · 03/08/2012 14:03

'incitement to hatred'

So Tory stickers included in that then?

WorraLiberty · 03/08/2012 14:03

I wouldn't see any harm in either you or the landlord perhaps mentioning your concerns that someone may take umbrage to these statements being displayed and decided to put a brick through the window, in which case it would be down to your tenant to foot the bill for repairs (although not sure where you'd stand legally on that front)

No it wouldn't be down to the tenant to foot the repair bill

YouOldSlag · 03/08/2012 14:04

I think yabu.
I wouldn't want to go down a route where by tennants could be evicted for their beliefs.

But the OP could evict for having pets, getting the boiler fixed independently (which could have caused more damage), and for defacing the front door. His beliefs needn't be mentioned.

KickTheGuru · 03/08/2012 14:05

Where do you draw the line with "beliefs" though?

Kids are being arrested on Twitter for "racial" comments that don't (in my opinion) fall under "racist" but rather "intolerant"

Is the line not drawn if you openly intolerant? Versus having stickers on the inside of your house?

BenedictsCumberbitch · 03/08/2012 14:07

Being a landlord does suck and we are one of the growing numbers of landlords who are doing it because we are stuck with a property we have outgrown that we can not sell to cover the mortgage. That said I feel we are good, fair landlords and do our best to keep the property as we ourselves would like it kept. You have all given me a lot of food for thought beyond my 'RACIST SCUMBAG LIVING IN OUR PROPERTY OH MY GOD' initial reaction and I can see how eviction for personal beliefs is a bit ott when looked at in the context of being a labour supporter or a Muslim etc but when the beliefs are so abhorrent and in many ways illegal it just feels a bit more wrong somehow. I hadn't even thought of the house becoming that BNP house. Sigh. What a conundrum.

OP posts:
YouOldSlag · 03/08/2012 14:09

Well I think YANBU OP. I agree it is abhorrent and I would want him out if it was me, but I would do it on a technicality. Having those stickers all over the door is bloody asking for trouble.

Sastra · 03/08/2012 14:09

It's not the BNP, it's the NF, which are really quite different in terms of their stance and methods of action. Sorry this doesn't help you OP, but I just wanted to point out that whilst I'd be unhappy with a BNP supporter in my property, is be fucking terrified of an "out" NF supporter...

WorraLiberty · 03/08/2012 14:10

I understand how you feel but just to clarify, there's no such thing as illegal beliefs...only actions.

And sadly, his actions are perfectly lawful.

BenedictsCumberbitch · 03/08/2012 14:10

Are the NF worse? Fucks sake. Just what we need. A fucking head case.

OP posts:
mayorquimby · 03/08/2012 14:10

It sounds like after the inspection you'll be able to take your pick of reasons to give notice and will be within your rights to do so.

Not necessarily she could be take to have acquiesced to the other infringements. She knew about them and accepted them, so he could argue that she can't now rely on them due to estoppel as the real reasons she is serving notice is due to his beliefs.
Nobody would back someone who was evicting someone for having a gay pride sticker or one supporting same sex marriage on the grounds they disagreed with their beliefs or opinions, and I don't think someone should be backed in evicting someone just because we can all agre their views are reprehensible. It's a very dodgy route to start down.

oopsCENSOREDagain · 03/08/2012 14:11

You don't need to get him out on a technicality - he has pets which are prohibited in his tenanacy agreement.

You don't have a leg to stand on over the stickers and posters, unfortunately. But you can definitely give him notice if he's breaching his tenancy agreement.

stifnstav · 03/08/2012 14:12

You don't need to "evict" him. You should be able to serve a section 21 notice bringing the tenancy to an end and with that type of notice you don't need to give a reason.

But it would probably be easier to check whether your tenancy agreement has a clause prohibiting advertisements/posters etc and politely ask him to comply with that clause.

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