To think that West Mercia Police need to take this poster off their website

[DuelingFanjo]

here

they have already apologised for another poster story but the poster on their site is, in my opinion, also pretty offensive.

"Alcohol features in two thirds of all rapes, we want people to enjoy the party season and let their hair down without letting their guard down"

where are their campaigns aimed at men or aimed at taking women seriously?

Wombat I am sorry this has made you feel crappy x

S'ok Dueling. It's really just made me remember how scared I was then - I was asked after the trial if I wanted to know when he was released from prison, I said no. I was terrified for a long time thinking he would try and find me and hurt me again, and was obsessed with moving to the USA as he wouldn't be able to get in.

Remembering also when I told my husband, and how I was wondering if I'd have to justify myself or not. I am a strong person, I don't think about it much. I'm good at compartmentalising things, sometimes it gets a bit much though.

I wish I'd had MN back then though - I'm sure I could've held my own much better against that shit of s defense lawyer!

The risk of being a victim of violent crime or involved in a serious accident increases massively when under the influence of alcohol. This is a fact.

Call it personal responsibility, street smarts, risk management, whatever however there is nothing wrong in high lighting this and that certain behaviour carries certain risks that can be lessened. This applies equally to all ages and both sexes.

Its a pity that everytime this crops up the usual suspects start to foam at the mouth about 'blame' and the usual strawmen.

What. Like people who think women shouldn't be blamed for being raped?

Or people who think the responsibility for rape should lie solely on the shoulders of rapists?

But the only person talking about 'blame' here is you. You're constructing a strawman that somehow general advice around personal safety equals 'well its your own fault'.

No one is saying that except you.

No, beanie.

Someone linked upthread to a campaign which refrained from placing responsibility on women. As a result, rapes fell by 10% in the area in question.

And yes. General advice around women's personal safety does translate into women being blamed.

A survey carried out by ONS, on behalf of The Havens found that 56% of London residents felt there were situations in which a person should take responsibility for being raped.

page 9 here may be of some interest

This is blaming women for being raped.

Mildew

what about the campaigns that have flagged that xx% of rapes are carried out by illegal mini cab drivers?

some awareness always helps , and people NEED to know this kind of stuff

we cant not educate people in case someone that did get raped feels bad about it

I dont agree at all in the "mini skirt she was asking for it" type stuff, but I think young girls need to aware of the risks

So if there was a poster campaign aimed at young men which advised that excessive alcohol consumption placed them at greater risk if violent crime would you still raise the same objection? (Actually a very common campaign)

Again, the only people taking about 'blame' here are those who insist that somehow pointing out that getting extremely drunk increases the risk of being a victim of violent crime translates in to 'its your own fault'.

In any other walk of life advice around personal safety and risk management is seen as a good thing and yet the second the word rape is mentioned it turns in to hysterics around blame.

Great, and no rapes have ever been carried out by black cab drivers, whilst in black cabs, right?

Yes, I know that xx% are carried out by illegal cab drivers. But which option do women take when it's 2am, their best friend's gone home/got lost on the way out of the club or whatever, and the only option left is the illegal cab? Do they walk home, in which case, should she get raped, she'd get blamed? or should she take the illegal cab, in which case, should she get raped, she'd get blamed.

I'm not saying don't educate people. I'm saying it's time we stopped focusing on the actions of the rape victim/survivor in the run up to a rape, and started focusing on the actions of the rapist. An intervention where a rapist is concerned could save a lot more women than encouraging women to "do x, y or z differently"

I agree beanie

But I think campaigns should be targeted at both men and women

ie dont get so pissed you dont even know where you are

I think the whole rape issue is so dodgy, and so fraught, that we just have to tread carefully

Rape court trails can unfortunately be terrible, just not the same case for violence trials

I knew my earlier analogy of walking around with a purse on view would draw criticism. 'A purse isn't a vagina' etc etc. But a vagina being more valuable means it deserves even more protection.

The principle of personal care still holds, whatever the potential risk. When you go out of the house, any sensible person behaves to minimise risks of all kinds - whether it's crossing the road or not tripping over paving stones. We know how to reduce those risks - looking r/l/r when crossing etc. Another risk is getting raped on the way home at night, and we know how to reduce that risk as well if we choose to.

The fact that rape is totally and terribly wrong does not mean that one should ignore ways of reducing the risks of being a victim. On the contrary because it's so awful we should be that much more careful to avoid getting into situations where there is a higher risk. It's just sheer bloody common sense to be careful.

I cannot accept the view being expressed that because the bad guys shouldn't take advantage, it's OK for us to be totally irresponsible.

Keep flaming if you like.

Sorry if this is a little off topic. I haven't read the whole thread but can I just add that rape happens to men too. One of my very good friends was spiked in a London club, he is a big bloke so didn't totally black out, but was ill enough to go to hospital. The police were called and they told him that increasingly women were targeting well off men, spiking their drinks with something so they black out, then giving them viagra. They do this to get pregnant and claim child support according to the police. The club had cctv and the woman was caught and charged with (I think) abh. The court case was at the end of last year and she was pregnant, I don't know if it was by another victim of hers (she got community service). The thing is in the cases this does happen in, the men are still legally obliged to support the child. Although the police are well aware of this (I had never even thought about such a thing happening) I have seen nothing about this anywhere, if it hadn't happened to my friend I would still be totally unaware.

Oh yes, because leaving the house with a vagina is completely irresponsible.

ESPECIALLY if you dare to drink alcohol whilst in ownership of it.

Sally - you're back

"On the same basis it seems sensible not to walk down the same street with your judgment impaired by alcohol and your tits hanging out"

am I allowed to walk down the streets sober with my tits hanging out and not expect to be assaulted?

I do have to ask. Is there anywhere I can leave my vagina on a night out, so I can get completely pissed, and not feel like I'm more at risk? Anyone? Could this be a new scheme?

"Trade in your vagina here, for a night of freedom!"

"am I allowed to walk down the streets sober with my tits hanging out and not expect to be assaulted?"

Yes of course you are allowed to do it. I never suggested for one moment that you weren't. I have never and would never say so, although it might suit you if I was to say so.

To avoid any misunderstanding. let me say it again...
You are perfectly entitled to stagger home totally pissed, down dark alleys with your tits out and your skirt up round your waist. And you should be able to do all that without being mugged or raped.

But unfortunately there is a greater risk in behaving that way, and if you want less risk you will not do it.

You are aware that the greatest risk of rape comes from a current or former partner, right? (counts for 54% of all rapes)

Please tell me... what's the prevention method there?

That prevention method is different in circumstance Mildew to what Sally is saying

Going down the road at night dressed how you want, breasts out etc is different to being raped by a partner in your own home

Mildew - that's an entirely different issue. I thought we were discussing the West Mercia poster...

""Alcohol features in two thirds of all rapes, we want people to enjoy their nights out and let their hair down without letting their guard down.

"If you drink too much, your judgement can be impaired and you might act in a completely different way to when you are sober."

If you want to start a thread on partner rape that might lead to a separate discussion.

Mildew - that's an entirely different issue. I thought we were discussing the West Mercia poster...

""Alcohol features in two thirds of all rapes, we want people to enjoy their nights out and let their hair down without letting their guard down.

"If you drink too much, your judgement can be impaired and you might act in a completely different way to when you are sober."

If you want to start a thread on partner rape that might lead to a separate discussion.

Sorry for duplicate