To offer a Landlord's perspective

[RoseWay]

There's been a lot of bashing of Landlords on here of late, land-owning class etc. I thought I'd share some experiences to offer an insight into why many are so paranoid about their property.

Background: we rented a family house out whilst we worked elsewhere near jobs.

Tennant 1: 6 months until first check, hadn't used heating all winter (we know for sure from bills no gas used) to save £ and had dried clothes inside. Worse damp across the property I've ever seen, left with 2 months rent unpaid, advised not worth pursuing due to chance of getting money back as gone abroad.

No. 2: Man, partner was his carer as he couldn't walk. Constantly sabotaged property (e.g. disconnecting waste water pipe, unscrewing bits in the boiler, removing floorboards) then calling environmental health. Seemed to be linked to trying to get council house but never really understood why. Maybe another reason. Intially thought problems were genuine until plumbers etc started poiting out deliberate damage. Turned out to be working as a roofer of all things and left shortly after causing a lot of damage to ours, including removing entire outhouse roof (???) Left owing rent, not reclaimed.

no. 3: we nearly lost lease due to action from neighbours due to noise.left owing rent.

no. 4: didn't clean in entire tennacy. Kitchen in particular so sticky shoes stuck to the floor. carpets ruined. junk in cellar/ outhouse about 4 skips worth.

All left withoutpaying rent worth more than the deposit plus an average damage of £500-£1000 (when fixing ourselves, not using anyone if possible)

Now we're moving back, out of pocket due to all the repairs etc. and to a very very poor condition house which was once lovely.

Not all tennans are like this, but I'm trying to share that not all landlords are greedy scum either. It's a horrible thing to rent your own home out and know all the risks, even if you try to be a wonderful landlord.

Anything that forms a part of the structure that is "decayed" by years or wear and tear forms part of the LL to fix.

My last house had very dodgy electrical wiring and my LL tried to say that I had to pay to rewire the house. Something that had not been done for over 50 years!!!

Oh, that would be great!

I hope it happens.

The thing with putting up pictures is a difficult area I think, and whether or not it's reasonable to expect to put up pictures depends on how long the tennancy is going to be for.

If a LL can be certain that they are going to have good tennants in a property for 5 years, then they know they are going to have to reprint before its let again so as long as the walls are filled again, I can't see a problem with hanging pictures.

But when the tennancy might only last 6 months, and the place is freshly painted, it seems reasonable that a LL wouldnt want holes made in the walls because then they would have to ensure they were filled and reprinted again before the next tennancy. And they can't be sure that the tennant will do that themselves, and if they don't then the Ll faces a lot of hassle and a fight to keep some of the deposit. Which for all they know at the start of the tennancy, could be needed for other things.

Obviously it's unreasonable for a LL to make a tennant wait weeks for a repair, but on the other hand it's unreasonable for a tennant to expect it done instantly just because they pay rent.

LRD it's pretty amazing!

They cannot end our tenancy unless they are selling (or moving back in themselves, I think), and even then they have to give us first dibs on buying (unless they are selling to family).

There are strict caps on how much they can raise the rent every year (ours went up 10 euros a month).

No inspections, as this is our home. We can decorate as we please.

You can't evict families in winter months. In practice it's very difficult to evict people at all.

You would think with so many tenant rights people wouldn't want to be landlords, yet there is still a rental sector, and people do rent all their lives here.

The catch is that it can be much harder to rent a flat here, because landlords know they might be stuck with you forever. I think they have insurance to cover themselves if tenants don't pay rent though.

I don't think this will ever happen in the UK though, as renting is seen as a second-class option by so many people, something you do until you can own, whereas here it is something people do forever.

Yes, I agree freddos - and putting up bluetack is different from knocking in nails, too.

I wasn't suggesting tenants should get things done instantly ... it's just a tricky one when LL don't know that there's an obligation to get things fixed. Some really don't. They're not being malicious, they just honestly don't know that they have that obligation. And feel upset and put out when tenants expect them to do things.

This is why we need much more careful regulation IMO. You wouldn't buy a car without having learned a bit about road law (and passed your theory test), so I don't think it's unreasonable to think you should learn a bit about tenancy law if you rent or pay rent.

dreaming - so do LL feel it's unfair, do you know? Or is it just 'this is the way it's always been'?

Er, why is it unreasonable to want repairs done right away?

I understand if there is a delay because the tradesmen can't get there right away, but I think the landlord at least needs to address the issue right away by calling someone.

I'm not sure we're not all saying the same thing in different words, dreaming?

If, say, my hot water breaks, I'd call the LL and expect them to call the plumber asap. I wouldn't necessarily expect the plumber to turn up within the hour, or within the day - to me, that would be 'right away' but not reasonable.

But, OTOH, I wouldn't expect the LL to say 'well, the cheap plumber is on holiday so you'll have to wait three weeks'. They might do that in their own home, if they felt like boiling kettles for three weeks - that's their business. But it's not fair to expect a tenant to do it.

If that makes sense?

I agree that there needs to be better regulation, but it needs to be fair to both parties. At the moment I think the lack of regulation leads to mistrust on both sides, where the LL is afraid of facing unfair costs and a tennant that they can't get rid of, and the tennants are afraid of eviction and losing their deposit if they complain about anything.

LRD, I don't know for sure but I suspect yes, they are just resigned to it.

I don't really think you have the buy to let culture here, property is not seen as an investment in that way.

I should say there are still bad landlords and bad tenants of course, there just seems to be much less tolerance for either and a lot more protections.

For those of you with crappy landlords I am sorry. It's shocking what some landlords try and class as habitable.

As a landlady myself I dream of tenants who don't let their kids draw on walls, kick holes in walls etc. I don't let my kids do it at home so why do other parents think its reasonable. I am not rich. I rent the properties out as they won't sell at the moment.

I always have the house professionally cleaned inside and carpets/windows/gardens sorted and the halls and landings painted between all tenants. And all 4 families have trashed the house, one left with my property (blinds and light shades), one set fire to a kitchen cupboard and didn't tell anyone. One smashed the bath side and pulled a toilet off the wall. And so much more .

The contract says six monthly inspections after the first settling in one. I'm so glad these have been done well by the agent with video etc as it meant the deposits could be legitimately used for repairs. For those of you treating the rental property as a home with respect I'm sure this seems excessive but sadly the landlord does need to cover themselves when tenants aren't so thoughtful. It never crosses my mind to avoid inspections when I was renting so long as a good effort was made for it to be convenient for us.

I always have the annual gas check and boiler service done. House is fitted with modern smoke/CO detectors etc. It doesn't cost much!!!

Perhaps been a responsible landlady I attract seemingly nice tenants for them to turn out to be inconsiderate buggers.

That said the tenants we have in the flat have been there 3 years and are great so there are good tenants about too.

OP YANBU!

I would have no issue with a high chart in a room the tenant then paints over before leaving. That's harsh.

Yes, that does make sense LRD, I agree.

I agree dreaming. It should be adressed straight away, but that doesn't mean things will be fixed right away.

I'm thinking of things that I have in my own home. My washing machine breaks down so I phone the insurance/service plan people and they tell me they can't come for another four days and then when they do I need to wait in half the day. Then they come and tell me they need to order a part that will take three days to arrive and then they can't come back for two days after that, at which point I will again need to wait in.

I think unless a tennant is paying well over the odds for rent, then in the same situation they shouldn't complain about being subject to the same thing. Or threaten to withhold rent.

This is where there needs to be compromise on both sides. A tennant can't complain that they aren't allowed to feel 'at home' when they don't want to put up with the things that living in a home entails. Obviously at the same time, a LL shouldn't expect a tennant to put up with frequent inspections and restrictions and then also have to take time off work and miss out on something they are paying for.

I think in the situation you describe, freddos, no, they shouldn't complain.

It is never a good idea for a tenant to withhold rent. It's a really bad idea.

But I do think there is a problem when LL say 'well, in my own home I would not fix things immediately'. That's possibly true, but the tenant is paying for the property in a certain state of upkeep. They shouldn't have to pay over the odds to have broken things replaced and everything maintained.

They are paying rent for that, as well as just to live there. That's why rent is usually well over the amount the mortgage payments would be, IME.

Wow Freddos- so you're saying if I want to feel at home I should expect to wait as long as the landlord decides I should wait to fix the hot water or heating?

Wow.

I'm not doing my landlord a favour, they are running a business.

Err, no. Where did I say that?

I'm saying that as long as the problem is adressed by the LL as soon as it is known about, then tennants are subject to the same time restraints as anyone else. That has nothing to do with when the LL 'decides'. It is to do with the fact that sometimes fixing things taks a little time. If a LL knows about a problem and can't be bothered to deal with it for another week when they could if they wanted to, then that a different problem.

I have been in my current property for almost two years. Last year when I renewed my tenancy my landlord (who is a nice man) promised to do certain repairs which were required but he wanted me to sign up for another year first. I signed thinking that he would attend to the slow leak which was coming from the bathroom into the kitchen ceiling (where all of the recessed lighting was). This was in August 2011.

The kitchen ceiling finally fell in during February of this year. The ceiling was not plastered until April of this year and I had to organise the work myself. The bill went to the landlord. The kitchen ceiling has not been painted as my landlord does not want me to do it and there are now large portions of the paint to the walls in the kitchen which are peeling off as a result of the water damage.

He rang me yesterday and he wants to do an inspection and for me to sign up to another twelve months.

I have paid rent every month, on time for two years. I keep the house clean and tidy. I am quiet and respectful of my neighbours. I report things that require repair immediately (they never get fixed but I report everything, in writing).

What annoys me is that I am now coming to the end of my tether with this LL. He is perfectly nice but he doesn't want to do anything about the maintenance of the house.

What he fails to realise is that I will move out and he won't be able to rent it for the rent that I pay because of the work which is now required (not just the kitchen ceiling). The house, which was a bit tired in the first place, now requires redecoration before he can let it to someone else. This means no rent coming in and he will still have to pay the mortgage whilst he is doing the work. And his next tenant could be a nightmare for all he knows.

He has a tenant now that he knows is a good one and he is being so short sighted by not doing some basic repair work. In the beginning I was perfectly prepared to do some redecoration to make it nice but now I think, why bother? If he can't be bothered to look after his investment then why should I pay out my own money doing the place up. To be honest I am running out of patience and there is no way I will be signing another tenancy agreement.

Oh yes. Water leaks. The uncertainty of whether landlords will be willing to get plumbing sorted out is why I will never rent somewhere with a water meter unless I have no choice! I've lived in rented houses all my life. Some landlords were brilliant. Some... Weren't. It should not take, for example, two years to replace a torrenting tap.

I just don't get it I'm afraid. This is an investment for them. They want to make money from it and I understand this. But if they don't do regular maintenance to the property then surely:-

1. The property ceases to be worth the rent which is being asked and they will have to reduce the same, potentially attracting less desirable tenants.
2. The property deceases in value, which surely is not the point of the exercise.

Well, to be fair, spending money now in order to save money later is something that many people quibble over, to their financial detriment. But it is annoying beyond belief if I'm affected by it.

The so called accidental landlords are the worst and need to be avoided at all cost. I can't stand people saying they can't sell their properties. The ONLY reason your property doesn't sell is because it is overpriced. If you are in negative equity then you have overpaid and priced out you tenants by buying a property for much more than its it worth or if you purchased the property years ago then you sitting on massive gains and being greedy with your asking price.

Umm I still suspect there are more bad landlords than tenants

Shelter now has a section and free helpline to advise tenants not aware of anything serious similar for landlords

The law also enshrines certain pretty basic rights for tenants presumably because it needs to not because politicians can't think of nothing better to do

Deposit protection scheme again was brought in for a reason I presume?!

From that lot I would suspect you had some serious tenant finding problems it's a bit too much for you to have just been unlucky IYSWIM (although you may have been unlucky as well!)
did you use an agent?
Did you actually ever have any decent tenants?
Care to share any insights as to why all that happened?

bp300 thankyou! Just got to the end of the thread and you said (far more eloquently) what I was going to say! A lot of people really need to have a huge rethink about what their house is actually 'worth'

"I can't understand people saying they can't sell their property. The only reason your property won't sell is Because it's overpriced"

Do you think people wanted to pay over the odds for their house? Do you not understand that relatively recently house prices were going up rapidly and people were advised to get a foot on the ladder and offered 100% mortgages to enable that? And that indeed with the lack of social housing, and limited rental market it was seen as the responsible thing to do, to buy?

I guess you had a crystal ball and knew that house prices Would come
Crashing down, that large numbers of people would lose their jobs and have to relocate, with the added burden of having a bigger mortgage on their house than its worth.