To offer a Landlord's perspective

[RoseWay]

There's been a lot of bashing of Landlords on here of late, land-owning class etc. I thought I'd share some experiences to offer an insight into why many are so paranoid about their property.

Background: we rented a family house out whilst we worked elsewhere near jobs.

Tennant 1: 6 months until first check, hadn't used heating all winter (we know for sure from bills no gas used) to save £ and had dried clothes inside. Worse damp across the property I've ever seen, left with 2 months rent unpaid, advised not worth pursuing due to chance of getting money back as gone abroad.

No. 2: Man, partner was his carer as he couldn't walk. Constantly sabotaged property (e.g. disconnecting waste water pipe, unscrewing bits in the boiler, removing floorboards) then calling environmental health. Seemed to be linked to trying to get council house but never really understood why. Maybe another reason. Intially thought problems were genuine until plumbers etc started poiting out deliberate damage. Turned out to be working as a roofer of all things and left shortly after causing a lot of damage to ours, including removing entire outhouse roof (???) Left owing rent, not reclaimed.

no. 3: we nearly lost lease due to action from neighbours due to noise.left owing rent.

no. 4: didn't clean in entire tennacy. Kitchen in particular so sticky shoes stuck to the floor. carpets ruined. junk in cellar/ outhouse about 4 skips worth.

All left withoutpaying rent worth more than the deposit plus an average damage of £500-£1000 (when fixing ourselves, not using anyone if possible)

Now we're moving back, out of pocket due to all the repairs etc. and to a very very poor condition house which was once lovely.

Not all tennans are like this, but I'm trying to share that not all landlords are greedy scum either. It's a horrible thing to rent your own home out and know all the risks, even if you try to be a wonderful landlord.

YANBU to present that view.
However there are bad landlords out there, and you can reverse what you said - not all tenants are bad either.

Some get sick of the intrusion, inspections without notice, landlords just letting themselves in when they feel like it, lack of repairs, lack of respect, lack of meeting legal obligations (gas safe checks etc). Discrimination against claimants of LHA - there's been a thread on here from someone who just couldn't rent somewhere despite being in work as they needed a LHA top up.

So it works both ways. Not all landlords are bad, and not all tenants are bad.

I do think though that the lettings market in this country needs to be regulated more. That way rogue landlords and professional tenants would be recognised much more quickly. There should be greater prospects for security of tenure - tenants should be able to feel where they live is their home and they're not going to be served notice in 6 months.

clytaenestra you speak sense. It is SO difficult to decide who. We needed a quiet tenant and chose a well spoken songle mum who explained she had to be quiet/ stay in due to her young child. Child, tidy and believable. turned out she had custody about 2 days a week and partied the rest with bf who indulgedin dv outside on the front lawn to endmost parties. Lovely reference, even viewed with her mum who she'd been living with in between rents.

Even with inspections as far as I've experienced a LL'shands are quite tied, if they do the usual not pay the last month's rent trick it leaves you with no deposit and it's VERY difficult to evict a tenant early (even if I've experienced you areat risk of losing your own lease.

Also, people have different levels of "clean". My clean is properly scrubbed and squeaky.

I know people who can live in something less clean and not bother about it.

MissMavis - if you smelt gas you could have called Transco? They wouldn't have fixed the fire, but would have turned off the gas supply to it, and slapped a warning sticker on? Then maybe that would have put a boot up the LA? (or possibly not, given your description of them). Transco don't charge.

oh and references are worthless, I've given an ok one to get someone out and avoid court costs which can fly up if they have legal aid

There is a gas fire in my place that has had a warning sticker on it since before we moved in in 2009. I would not recommend using that as a means to get things replaced!

On a similar note, I especially enjoyed when the gas safety guy came and looked at our very elderly gas fire, observed 'they don't usually fit these any more ... just to be on the safe side, I'll remove it, it's completely out of date'. I pointed out (stupidly) that it was our only source of heat, and it was winter, but that obviously if it was dangerous, I wanted it to go! He checked it, said it was ok for now but we must keep a very close eye on it as it really should be replaced.

Has the LL replaced it? Have they fuck. They're quite happy to wait until it breaks down or starts spewing carbon monoxide. We can either use it or buy an electric heater (because those aren't expensive to run, are they?).

If I'd been out that day - which I could have been, as you don't need to be in for inspections - he would have removed it without noticing we don't have any other source of heat. Half of me wishes he had.

And ours are half-decent LL IMO. They just don't think.

Does anybody know, my lease was for a year and the year is up now, so every month I'm just paying one month's rent. They haven't asked me to sign another lease and I wouldn't want to commit to another year tbh as there are so many things wrong with the house and they've been so intransigent whenever I've asked for any small thing. But if they ask me to go, what happens? would I have to be out in a month or could I just say to them, look, I'm looking for somewhere, I'll go when I find somewhere. Reasonable people would be happy with that. I always pay the rent on time, but these people are odd.

Why don't we start a renting section on MN?

Only regular posters can apply and if they much the house up, you can stalk them around their threads and call them "foul, nasty, untidy, thread-muckeruppers"

big, they have to give you two months' notice to leave, you have to give them one.

When you rent out your property, you should realise that the property is then somebody else's home. If you are not prepared to allow someone to live in it as they would in their own home, you shouldn't let it out.
I have had nightmare LLs and excellent ones. The nightmare ones couldn't understand that the house is now someone else's home.

I am all for regular checks, as there are nightmare tenants, but would like LLs to know how invasive the checks can feel. The reason we are renting, is because we cannot afford to buy. We are currently saving for a deposit.

@ LRD, I think landlords go into it with the expectation that it will be easy money. They just want to collect every month. But UNLESS the house is totally top of the range then it's not going to work out like that. If it's a 'job' being a landlord, then there is going to be work and effort involved and I think that's what landlords seem to resent......? even the ones like on this thread who are decent people complain about a few days work. But if you're collecting approx £1000 a month and expecting there to be no work [confused tbh. A poster complained about a few days work but that would not even be once a month it would be less than once a YEAR. If i move out my landlords will resent lifting a FINGER to get it ready for next people. I will be expected to do all the work on their investment. It's annoying. If I'm ever a landlord, (who knows, I can dream) I will see it like a JOB. There's no money for nothing.

Our flat is meant to be "top of the range"

The cistern is "built" into the bathroom and they now have to break the concrete to get to the cistern.

We can't flush the toilet. We need to fill a bucket up and pour water into the bowl so that gravity can do it's job.

I've been reporting this in our "new" build for MONTHS now.

Pekka, you are so right.

So many landlords expect you to live in their flat without making a single mark upon it, it's nerve-wracking, you never really feel at home.

Then people turn around and say, if you don't like it, you should buy. Hahahaha as if all us renters could buy, we just choose not to.

I rent in France and it's amazing, tenants have so many rights. There is definitely the attitude that this is your home.

One thing that keeps people in line though is that landlords DO want references and will give honest ones. I find it strange, frankly, that landlords on this thread are saying references are useless but they themselves would also give dishonest ones. Wouldn't references solve a lot of this problem? Nightmare tenants are nightmares to everybody.

I don't think that's fair bigband. LL are in it for all sorts of reasons - lots because they can't sell the house.

I think there's a huge difference between someone who is a professional LL and owns several properties, and someone who rents out what used to be their home, or their gran's home, or similar. Sadly I think the second type are often hardest to deal with (though my best LL was one of these, too), because it is difficult for them to get their mind around the fact that it's their house, but the tenant's home.

Often it's just a total mismatch of expectations, with goodwill on the LL's side but a total ignorance of the law.

I find it really awkward to explain to a LL that even if they are lovely people, it is a business relationship and not a friendship. They end up being upset and hurt that I don't have spare cash just to call in my own plumber - because of course, who doesn't have that cash? - and I feel frustrated that they seem so nice but do not understand what I'm paying them rent for.

I think most LLs want people to feel like the property is their home, because apart from it being nicer, if a tennant feels it is their home then they are more likely to look after it. Also LLs who are are planning to rent out long term generally prefer to not have to keep finding tennants so like the idea of longer term tenancies to people who look after the property.

It really does work both ways though. While tennants should be able to feel at home, they also need to respect that the property belongs to someone else and it is a major asset for them. They have a lot invested in it and the majority of LLs are not millionaires that can afford to take a financial loss if their property is damaged.

thanks LRD

I let two houses. Tenants have been in them both for four years now. I have British gas home care contracts costing £35 a month to cover all emergency repairs tenants can phone 24 hours a day. For gas and electricity heating hand plumbing.

I have never had a bad tenant.

Yes, my LL are a "little old couple" and they play on that imo. anyway, this thread has reminded me to send another email about the shower. it's ok in the summer but it cjust can't heat up the water to a decent temperature in the winter - thoughts of another winter of cold showers. yikes.

I'm a tenant, I've been waiting for a month now for the LL to fiz a leak in my bathroom that caused my hall ceiling to collapse. I've been waiting 3 years for the LL to repair/replace my sink unit in the kitchen which is propped up by 2 planks.

I want to start decorating (at my expense) but I can not do so until the upstairs leak is fixed - what's the point when it's going to get ruined by water damage?

freddos - yes, but what does that look like, the LL wanting the tenant to feel at home?

I think it's often true, and people have good intentions, but it still doesn't always work.

If the LL thinks 'I want my tenant to feel at home ... of course, I shall let them put up pictures, and of course, when the heating breaks down, I shall expect them to understand that, in my own home, I would just put up with that for weeks until I could afford to get it mended' - well, you have a problem. Because the LL is being nice above what they have to do in the first bit, but also being unreasonable in the second. Part of what the tenant is paying for is fixed heating, and they won't want to wait weeks for it, and they don't have to.

Or if the LL thinks 'I want my tenant to feel at home ... now, if this were my home, I would insist on the kitchen being spotless, and I shall expect them to remove all jars from the countertop and put them on the shelf after use' ... that's not on. The feeling may come from good motivations, but it's patronizing to the tenants to assume the way you like their home will be the way they like it.

I had a LL tell me, very gently and happily, that for the last two months as she was showing round prospective new tenants, she'd rearrange the room to look 'its best'.

She did want me to feel at home, though.

The answer is to make sure LL think of this as a professional relationship and know what their rights and their obligations are. And tenants too. And proper penalties for not following them, not the half-arsed situation relying on 'goodwill' there is now.

That's true Outraged, but what do you consider damage?

Here in France you can paint, hang pictures and decorate, as long as you leave the flat in good order. When I lived in London half my landlords had fainting spells if I wanted to put up a single picture, there were clauses in the lease saying no blue-tack, etc.

I have always respected the property I lived in but too many landlords want you to treat it like a hotel, not a home.

Ohhh ... I want to be in France then dreaming!

I think it's a good point about 'damage'. Again, a problem with a LL who intended to be nice but had not bothered to learn anything about the business of renting: my mate's LL said after they left, they'd be lovely tenants, but the deposit would be taken up because the walls needed repainting. After, I think, five years? You bet they needed repainting! But that comes under fair wear and tear, as do small stains on carpets and small knocks on walls.

bigband you are now on a rolling Statutory Periodic Tenancy - to leave you must give one month's notice to co-incide with the rent period, and for the LL to get you out they need to give two months' notice again to co-incide with a rent period.

I realy like what Shelter is pushing for with their London Lettings Service idea:

homesforlondon.org.uk/about

Homes for London should set up a London Lettings Service to offer London?s private renters a single, trustworthy one-stop shop when they are looking to rent a home.

All homes available through the London Lettings Service should meet minimum standards. Tenants would know that their deposit will be protected and landlords would benefit from tenant referencing and rent guarantees.

As a non-profit social enterprise, the London Lettings Service would ensure that no tenant or landlord is hit with dubious, unfair or hidden fees or charges.

*

It's basically a way to cut out letting agencies (which can be so predatory) and give tenants decent housing, while landlords can get more trustworthy tenants. I think this would solve a lot of problems, I hope it happens.