To offer a Landlord's perspective

[RoseWay]

There's been a lot of bashing of Landlords on here of late, land-owning class etc. I thought I'd share some experiences to offer an insight into why many are so paranoid about their property.

Background: we rented a family house out whilst we worked elsewhere near jobs.

Tennant 1: 6 months until first check, hadn't used heating all winter (we know for sure from bills no gas used) to save £ and had dried clothes inside. Worse damp across the property I've ever seen, left with 2 months rent unpaid, advised not worth pursuing due to chance of getting money back as gone abroad.

No. 2: Man, partner was his carer as he couldn't walk. Constantly sabotaged property (e.g. disconnecting waste water pipe, unscrewing bits in the boiler, removing floorboards) then calling environmental health. Seemed to be linked to trying to get council house but never really understood why. Maybe another reason. Intially thought problems were genuine until plumbers etc started poiting out deliberate damage. Turned out to be working as a roofer of all things and left shortly after causing a lot of damage to ours, including removing entire outhouse roof (???) Left owing rent, not reclaimed.

no. 3: we nearly lost lease due to action from neighbours due to noise.left owing rent.

no. 4: didn't clean in entire tennacy. Kitchen in particular so sticky shoes stuck to the floor. carpets ruined. junk in cellar/ outhouse about 4 skips worth.

All left withoutpaying rent worth more than the deposit plus an average damage of £500-£1000 (when fixing ourselves, not using anyone if possible)

Now we're moving back, out of pocket due to all the repairs etc. and to a very very poor condition house which was once lovely.

Not all tennans are like this, but I'm trying to share that not all landlords are greedy scum either. It's a horrible thing to rent your own home out and know all the risks, even if you try to be a wonderful landlord.

Yes SGB - social housing would have been great for us, but as a married couple with no kids we had a cat in hells chance. The sensible solution for us was to buy. Would have loved to have had a down payment but couldn't afford to save it while renting .

emm - I don't think SGB was criticizing you for not going for social housing!

Oh no! - did it sound like I thought that! I was just emphatically agreeing with SGB! Selling off the social housing was a terrible mistake

I wasn't sure, since you've been getting a rather unjustified pasting about your choices.

Selling off social housing was a huge mistake. I think it also had an impact on tenancy law, indirectly, because of the attitudes towards ownership and renting.

Yup, selling off social housing also kind of entrenched this idea that home ownership is The Way To Go and what everyone should aspire to - and that those who don't earn enough or have a good enough credit rating to get a mortgage are basically feckless underclass scum and it's fine for landlords to rip them off, they should just work harder and buy somewhere.

If the money raised by selling off council homes even now was diverted into building new ones (and refurbishing derelict property etc etc) not only would there be more social housing, there might be a few more jobs as well.

Yes, and if it hadn't become so aspirational to own a second home, though that might be a more minor point.

'I think it also had an impact on tenancy law, indirectly, because of the attitudes towards ownership and renting. '

I think it has, because in other countries, people either buy to let as a complete investment, they never consider it their home or only as their property to the extent that it is for hire for someone else to pay to rent the space of, or corporations buy it for the same reasons.

None of this, 'Ooooo, it's my property! Someone who pays money to hire the space may trash it, therefore I have to have inspections every month, since it's mine no putting up pictures, repairs done when I can afford it, etc, etc.'

The British system of tenancy strikes many who are foreign born as very, very odd, tbh. It is heavily stacked in favour of the often absentee landlord, tbh, and there is a long history of absentee landlordism that has become engrained in its culture, and quite imperialistic attitudes towards those who pay money for the hire of space.

Prepares for flames, but so what?

expat, I think you are right. There are just so many landlords here that are ignorant of the law, and don't understand that when they are accepting rental money from a tenant, then although the property belongs to the landlord, the tenant is entitled to treat it as their home for the duration of the tenancy, and shouldn't be expected to put up with landlords popping round whenever they like, commenting on their standard of housework, etc, etc.

There are so, so many dreadful letting agencies too. Mostly ignorant of the law but convinced of their own righteousness and grimly determined to squeeze as much money as possible from both landlord and tenant. The government are letting people down by not regulating the sector. Any idiot can set up as a letting agent.

But I thought you were from the US? And I had heard it was even worse over there re tenants' rights? (Maybe I am misinformed on this).

I agree with expatinscotland and I'm British born.

Assured shorthold tenancies are a disgrace. The landlord can evict a tenant with only two months notice for no reason. They have a legal duty to maintain a property, however, the threat of being evicted is a deterrent to making a complaint against a landlord. Many of the poorest tenants are trapped in appalling conditions. Where is the national outcry?

The laws on renting are a result of deeply engrained cultural attitudes around imperialism, and in my opinion, class too. In the same era the Irish were left to starve, English children were splitting rope in workhouses. The working classes and the poor have always been treated with contempt by their rulers. George Orwell highlighted the appalling living conditions of the miners in The Road to Wigan Pier.

I know todays conditions are nowhere near as bad as my previous examples, but they still reflect the contempt the political class has for those who can't afford to buy. Assured shorthold tenancies are the modern equivalent of throwing the peasants off your land. Many families are forced to move frequently, and their kids have to move schools just as frequently. But fuck them, the only kids with the right to some degree of stability are the kids of homeowners. I believe things may change as more middle class people are unable to buy though.

I do have some sympathy for Landlords. There's never any excuse for anti-social behaviour or leaving the place wrecked and filthy.

"Easy Rent. The reason prices were high was because people like you were paying ridiculous amounts for the houses. If no-one was willing to paying those prices they would fall."

Curious.. but would do you think would happen if everyone rented instead of bought? Who would people be renting off?

"As for the the mortgage payment being less than the rent that is very shortsighted just to look at is that way. Would you buy anything else for double what it should cost just because you could get a cheap finance deal on it?"

Looking at it that way renting looks equally stupid. Why would you pay monthly for something only to be left with nothing at the end of it?

Disclaimer: I rent and always have done. But would love to buy, it makes much more financial sense.

"Better to default on a rent than a mortgage."

Yay, homelessness!

expatinScotland "None of this, 'Ooooo, it's my property! Someone who pays money to hire the space may trash it, therefore I have to have inspections every month, since it's mine no putting up pictures, repairs done when I can afford it, etc, etc.' "

Well, it is my property and to me its purely business sense to reduce outgoings by running it so as to minimise damage. Its actually the local authorities in Scotland that require monthly testing of the smoke alarms, not me. I briefly inspect the flat every two months because it makes business sense. Its nothing to do with sentimentality. Likewise, repairs need to do otherwise the property fabric might get damaged.

For instance, at the moment, its make more financial sense for me to have it empty. Although I was one of those people who got a 90% mortgage and indeed borrowed the 10% deposit as a "car loan", I've had it 11 years and my mortgage is now £405 per month for a 3 bedroom city centre flat. Taking into account the cost of the HMO license, changing the locks because that is what they have decreed this year, getting all the inspections, running the very likely risk of damage by the tenants when I've just fully redecorated and so on, because I'm thinking of selling it next spring and buying in Germany instead, it just makes more sense to have it empty.

I do think though theres an attitude problem regarding housing and class distinction in the UK. As for landlords, if you constantly insist that they are the spawn of the devil, and you have a very reasonable hardworking person sitting looking at this in writing, who knows the reality of what some tenants can be like, they are going to be bemused but more wary of people who try to pull the wool over your eyes. There also seems to be a prevailing attitude that someone else is always responsible.

As for short assured tenancies, yes, you can give notice of two months. I think this is probably because of the high cost of housing in the UK - many people would simply be repossessed if there was not some mechanism for ending tenancies.

FrothyOM "I believe things may change as more middle class people are unable to buy though."

So high prices might eventually lead the market to adjust itself. But who knows what politicians might do to interfere with this process!

I have to say, a lot of high house prices is caused by people who buy for their children, or use inheritances to buy. They want to give their children a helping hand over others who don't get anything. Personally I don't think thats particularly fair.

Geegee, you mention compulsory monthly checking of fire alarms, is that because your property is an HMO? I rent in Scotland and my landlords installed hard-wired alarms, but they're not tested monthly.

OldLady it depends on which local authority area your property is in. My property in the strictest one. You know, the local authority which can't build one tram line to schedule and on budget. The same that has had to suspend multiple members of its Property Department due to fraud over their statutory repairs scheme (am I cynical in thinking they will just be re-employed by the HMO Department #JobsForTheBoys).

So yes, I would be legally required by the local authority to go into my tenant's home every single month, and test the extremely loud smoke alarms in each and every room, writing down the results in a logbook.

I'm only hoping those in double upper flats don't have to test their sprinkler systems every month...

You couldn't make this sort of nonsense up!

That's astonishingly intrusive! And aPITA for you. While I can understand it's a good idea to check monthly, and even to log it, surely a tenant could be trusted to do it themselves? Glad my LA isn't so severe, I've lived here for nearly eight years and have never had an inspection. (Though there have been repairs needed, so people the LL trust/employ have been in, and could have reported anything amiss. And we know the alarms work because the kitchen one is a heat-detector and goes off if we cook on sunny days.)

Being an (accidental) landlord and a tenant at the same time (and for a few years) I can speak from both sides and one of the most annoying things IMO is this inspection stuff. What is it all about?

A landlord cannot dictate how clean/tidy a tenant should live. If a tenant is spoiling something in the rental what can a LL do about it? Short answer - nothing.

These inspections cause so much hassle and aggravation.

Empusa Sat 04-Aug-12 10:11:27
Curious.. but would do you think would happen if everyone rented instead of bought? Who would people be renting off?

Looking at it that way renting looks equally stupid. Why would you pay monthly for something only to be left with nothing at the end of it?
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Don't get me wrong I have nothing against people renting or buying or being a landlord. But I do have something against people paying massively over inflated prices for housing with borrowed money which massively increases the costs for everyone else. The fact that over 3 million people are in negative equity shows that the only reason that many people were paying these stupid prices was because they were using borrowed money not their own. There are many long term professional landlords who have owned their property a long time and these are the people I would recommend you rent from not the accidental landlords who have no idea how to run a rental and what their legal obligations are to their tenants.
Renting makes more sense than buying when house prices are falling or overvalued. Traditionally the long term average house has been 3.5 times the average salary. So if the average house is around this level I would strongly recommend buying (were nowhere near there now) as prices have a lot further to fall.

Bloody hell!!!
No offense RoseWay but I think you need to do better background checks (if your renting privately) If your renting through an agency then I suggest you get a new one who does proper checks on people.
I find it highly unlikely that those people have had no prior complaints from previous landlords.
Also why did you not do more regular inspections? Is this a UK thing? Can you not do 3 monthly inspections or something? You said no.4 did not clean during entire lease, why was that not followed up when you realised that they were not cleaning the place?
Seems to me that a lot of this stuff could have been avoided, I have rented out my IP for 5 years, new tenants for each year and never had any major problems. Although I do ask for 4 references, last 2 addresses and names of current employer. They don't have a job, don't lease to them.
Don't have 4 references 2x personal 2x professional, don't rent to them.
Did not get good feedback from each reference, don't lease to them!
And I assume you are keeping their bond right?

I am currently getting a possesion order for my little first house that we rented out. The tenant abandoned it last week after being given notice for non payment in October. When we went in it is like a channel five documentary. The residents of the chatsworth estate would look down on living like that.
Now I have to spend probably nigh on a thousand pounds that I don't have getting it emptied and cleaned before I can even start decorating it to re-let.
Tenant on the other hand is now in a brand new rented house preparing to do the same to someone else.

The only recourse I have is to go to court but as she is on benefits I wouldn't get a penny. Of course if te government think she has cheated them and owes money then they can take the money out of her benefits.
Tis all backwards. Rant over.