To offer a Landlord's perspective

[RoseWay]

There's been a lot of bashing of Landlords on here of late, land-owning class etc. I thought I'd share some experiences to offer an insight into why many are so paranoid about their property.

Background: we rented a family house out whilst we worked elsewhere near jobs.

Tennant 1: 6 months until first check, hadn't used heating all winter (we know for sure from bills no gas used) to save £ and had dried clothes inside. Worse damp across the property I've ever seen, left with 2 months rent unpaid, advised not worth pursuing due to chance of getting money back as gone abroad.

No. 2: Man, partner was his carer as he couldn't walk. Constantly sabotaged property (e.g. disconnecting waste water pipe, unscrewing bits in the boiler, removing floorboards) then calling environmental health. Seemed to be linked to trying to get council house but never really understood why. Maybe another reason. Intially thought problems were genuine until plumbers etc started poiting out deliberate damage. Turned out to be working as a roofer of all things and left shortly after causing a lot of damage to ours, including removing entire outhouse roof (???) Left owing rent, not reclaimed.

no. 3: we nearly lost lease due to action from neighbours due to noise.left owing rent.

no. 4: didn't clean in entire tennacy. Kitchen in particular so sticky shoes stuck to the floor. carpets ruined. junk in cellar/ outhouse about 4 skips worth.

All left withoutpaying rent worth more than the deposit plus an average damage of £500-£1000 (when fixing ourselves, not using anyone if possible)

Now we're moving back, out of pocket due to all the repairs etc. and to a very very poor condition house which was once lovely.

Not all tennans are like this, but I'm trying to share that not all landlords are greedy scum either. It's a horrible thing to rent your own home out and know all the risks, even if you try to be a wonderful landlord.

Erm. 'People like me'? I rent, I always have.

But I know some people couldn't afford it when the mortgage was cheaper.

What should they have done? I take it you have no answer either.

It has been more cost effective for us to buy, with a 100% mortgage, than to rent . End of. That's not short sighted- its highly sensible

I do find it depressing that some people can only imagine people defending financial decisions if they mate them ... never just out of basic understanding of other people's hard choices.

It is absurd to talk about how much something 'costs' as if the price can be determined outside the market. It can't. Back to economics 101, I think.

The average rental yield in 2007 was 3.5% and lost mortgage rates were over 6% so in many cases it was cheaper to rent than to buy in terms of the monthly payment. People who took discounted rates for a period when the new it would revert to the standard variable rate at the end of the discounted term were very short sighted.

Perhaps people are capable of doing their own sums for their particular situation bp300.

I have, and we're a lot better off than if we'd continued renting, and have used money saved to over pay on the capital borrowed. Most family sized rentals in our area are in a higher council tax band than where we've bought, so saving there too. Oh and as I can walk to work we manage on one car. I've done the sums and we're better off than if we'd managed to stay in the same rented house. When you factor in that we could have had to move several times during that period if the LL had given notice, we are probably better off by even more than my calculations

I've been a tenant and a landlord. There are some good landlords, some awful. Some good tenants, some awful. It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

Of course for some people it was cheaper to rent than buy.

And for others it was not.

Maybe, just maybe, they weren't 'short sighted', but, um, 'not as rich as you'. Ever think of that?

Not everyone has money spare.

LRDtheFeministDragon Thu 02-Aug-12 21:14:43
Of course for some people it was cheaper to rent than buy.

And for others it was not.

Maybe, just maybe, they weren't 'short sighted', but, um, 'not as rich as you'. Ever think of that?

Not everyone has money spare.
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If I was to take sides with

1. The hard worker saver who was priced out buy the someone who borrowed way more than the could afford. or
2. The borrower who borrowed way more than the could afford because they only looked at the short-term mortgage payment, who the got repossessed and now my taxes have to bail out the banks. For some reason my sympathy lies with the first example and not the second.

I haven't been repossessed bp300 . Youre preaching at the wrong people. In fact you and zhag are in danger of coming across like youngsters who've just done GCSE economics and are eagerly telling the rest of us how mortgages and rent work.

Bp, you're making straw men now.

Loads of people work hard. People borrow if they can afford to, and in this case, if they can't afford not to.

Again.

Do you have answer to what these people should have done? Other than 'be richer'?

ou have answer to what these people should have done? Other than 'be richer'?
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yes I answered this before

RENT

Erm ... so, people who couldn't afford to pay rent, should have rented?

Do you spot the problem there?

So: what should people have done? Really, what should they have done?

Unless you are advocating squatting or defaulting on rent deliberately?

LRDtheFeministDragon Thu 02-Aug-12 21:33:13
Erm ... so, people who couldn't afford to pay rent, should have rented?

Do you spot the problem there?

So: what should people have done? Really, what should they have done?

Unless you are advocating squatting or defaulting on rent deliberately?

Better to default on a rent than a mortgage. Mortgage interest payment were almost double rental yields so it was not cheaper to rent than buy it may have seemed temporally cheaper by some of the short term discount rates available.
Saying renting was cheaper than buying is like saying buying a £5000 sofa with nothing to pay for 12 months is cheaper than buying a £50 sofa from a second hand shop because your not paying up front.

No, it's not 'better' to default on rent than pay your mortgage. As many people are managing to do.

You do not seem to understand that not everyone has money readily available all of the time.

So: what is your answer? You're seriously suggesting people should have carried on renting more expensively, defaulted on rent, got a rotten credit history, quite possibly legal proceedings, cheated landlords out of their money?

You don't think any of this might have had a negative effect? Or is it poor people buying houses that you think is bad for the economy?

I haven't defaulted on my mortgage. And it is more cost effective than renting.
This is getting more and more bizarre by the minute isn't it LRD?!

It is a little strange, emmie. It sounds as if bp doesn't like tenants, or landlords, or people with mortagages .... only 'hard working' people who're none of them above.

I bet we can guess what kind of 'hard working' people those might be.

You don't think any of this might have had a negative effect? Or is it poor people buying houses that you think is bad for the economy?
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Its the people buying the houses at the inflated prices which is causing the problems we have in the economy today. The government has bailed out feckless borrowers by keeping interest rates low, otherwise they would be repossessed. As a result of the low rates it is weakening our currency and causing huge increases in food and energy prices. So Yes poor people buying houses is very bad for the economy.

No, bp, no, it's not.

That is such a ridiculously over-simplified view.

You still don't seem to understand that default on rent is not a better option than paying a mortgage, even a big one.

Nor do you seem to understand that though individuals should be responsible, part of that responsibility is to their families. You are saying that someone who responsibly goes for the option they can afford, which doesn't put burden on the social housing system or cheat a landlord by defaulting rent, are honestly wrong not to choose the other options?

Do you have some kind of huge grudge against the world?

I thought it was general knowledge that people buy houses with high LTV on the expectation that it will become cheaper in the short to medium term with inflation and salary increase, as opposed to rents which stay at market price?

But more and more as I look to buying in Germany and selling up here, the UK does strike me as an odd property market. Mortgages were, and still are, much more readily available than in many European countries, and tend to be much more highly geared. Hence theres more competition for the houses that are for sale.

The other oddity that strikes me is that the property market in the UK is unbalanced because of the relatively low number of people who build their own houses. If you think about it, throughout history, a high proportion of people have built their own houses, but in Britain we have mainly delegated responsibility for this to large scale developers who build housing estates.

Its a pretty huge social change, but no-one ever comments on it.

That's true, I'd not thought of that gee.

My grandparents built their own house - if by that you mean not the bricks and mortar, but buying a plot and building on it?

LRDtheFeministDragon Thu 02-Aug-12 21:53:28
No, bp, no, it's not.

That is such a ridiculously over-simplified view.
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That's not an over simplified view. Everyone in the country is going to have a reduced standard of living. Pensioners and savers are being screwed because the government are keeping interest rates low to keep feckless borrowers in homes they wouldn't be able to afford if interest rates were at normal levels. The currency devaluation caused by the low rates is pushing up energy and food prices for everyone. This is fact.

So, there are no other reasons why we're in a recession? Just those selfish people who went into banks, put guns to the bankers' heads and demanded 100% mortgages?

Ok then.

Hmm, I wonder why other countries are struggling too?

Of course, one of the biggest factors in the UK housing crisis was the right-to-buy thing. Not in itself (it's not a terrible thing for people whose circumsances improved to want to own the home they have been living in), but because the councils who sold off the housing were forbidden to spend the money they got from the sales on building more houses, so all of a sudden there's no council housing any more.

That's true, SGB.

LRDtheFeministDragon Thu 02-Aug-12 22:04:02
So, there are no other reasons why we're in a recession? Just those selfish people who went into banks, put guns to the bankers' heads and demanded 100% mortgages?

Ok then.

Hmm, I wonder why other countries are struggling too?
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This is the main reason we are in recession and the fact that many people also borrowed again their homes to buy consumer good which is even worse. Most countries such as USA, Austalia and most of the eurozone apart from Germany had housing bubbles as well and the Germans are the ones left to bail everyone out.
Did the banker put a gun to the borrowers head either? Both lender and borrower are to blame. I can't see how the borrowers should take no responsibility in this.