To be so ashamed of ds and his behaviour?

[Onlyhappywhenitrains]

Ds aged 3.1 has always been tricky. He was a miserable baby because he never slept and cried around six hours a day. He has grown into a more cheerful toddler but he is extremely high energy with a short concentration span and if he has decided he doesn't want to do something it is practically impossible to convince him otherwise. And he stil doesn't sleep.
He is the size of a six year old and will often push or snatch from other children his own age. I don't think he realises his own strength and often other people think he is older than he really is which doesn't help.
But I am constantly on edge waiting for him to misbehave. Today we went out with a few of my friends, one of whom has a dd who is just six months older than my ds. They were the only children there. She sat still over lunch, chatted to everyone and was generally delightful. Ds would not sit still, barely said a word (although is capable of holding full blown conversations and does not shut up at home) and periodically would snatch / whinge / cry because he couldn't have his own way.
I could just feel everyone thinking 'I'm glad that isn't my child' and making negative comparisons between friend's dd and my ds. As was I. I know it doesn't help to compare but I really am getting the the point where I would prefer to stay in the house all day than take ds out. Is this just 3 year old boy behaviour and will it pass? I worry he will never cope when starting school. I don't think he is especially bright and I don't think he will sit still. He is also very easily put off, if he can't do something the first time he will lie on the floor and scream in frustration and then won't try again. This morning he had a fifteen minute sulk because he couldn't get a spinning top to spin fast enough. He is unbelievably competitive and turns everything into a race or competition. If he doesn't win, again massive tantrums and screaming.

I want you to know that what is now, at 3, is not what will be in 2, or 5 or 10 years time. Hold on to that. Look for as many good things about him as you can and praise him and love him for those.

DD1 was a wild toddler. It was hard taking her anywhere because she was the one who would grab the toys from other children, with as much force as she needed, would tantrum round the shops, run away from me at any excuse, ignore most of what I said. I was constantly being called into preschool about her behaviour, usually because her imaginary dogs were biting the boys. It was a nightmare taking her out anywhere so usually I stayed at home.

DD2 was much like your friend's little girl. She was an absolute angel child. At last I knew it wasn't me! She slept, she had manners, she did everything she was asked, she talked politely to adults. She was the easiest preschooler you could possibly imagine.

Once DD1 went to school she gradually settled. Somehow she went from strength to strength. She is 16 now and is a lovely teenager. She has just sailed through her older childhood and teenage years and we have a brilliant relationship. All the friends who warned me she would never settle at school, never do anything, be so aggressive she would end up expelled or worse - they were wrong.

DD2 is now nearly 13, and much harder work. At about 11 she was so challenging I was often posting on teens for advice, in despair. She is getting easier, but still often stroppy and oppositional. I've had to sort out all kinds of issues I never had to even think about with DD1.

So your friend with the angel DD may well have the harder time in years to come!

He is only 3. It's very young and he will change a lot as he grows up. Encourage the positive as much as you can. He will have some lovely qualities, try to bring those out as he grows. And hold on to the possibility that one day you'll be the one with the child you can be proud of :)

Bloody hell - that would have done Mother Teressa's head in!!

Sleep deprived 3 year olds are the creatures from hell... sort this out and you'll have a different child :) and you will regain your sanity.

Use the Bunny Clock - make it not negotiable. If he does wake you, silently return him to his bed, no eye contact, no 'reward' (chatting/cuddling etc).

Make sure everthing is in place so he can go to the toilet without you (little light on etc).

Make sure he takes a drink to bed with him (Tommy tippy or sports bottle of water).

Reward chart - sticker for any night he doesn't wake you up & let him choose the reward (within reason) so he's fully incentivised to do this.

He's 3 - you need to be firm that nightime is for sleeping if he wants to see 4

You don't need bloody counselling, you need SLEEP and it's not surprising you feel the way you do, he's acting like a typically annoying fecking 3 year old but you are both sleep deprived, it's enough to send anyone to the edge of reason!!

Haven't read all so these practicals might have been covered already:

1 - for a sleeper who wakes themself

Buy or make a weighted duvet ( will help pin child down and reduce flailing)
Don't bath child before bed, wash only their feet and massage in lots of cream between their toes (does some reflexology thing to help them)
Put them to bed at least an hour early than you think is sensible, droping all daytime naps (start at 6.30, work upwards in 15min slots over a few days to get ultimate bed-time). What your looking for is a time that suits their body rythms.

2 - do not expect a boy to ever sit for any length of time

A girl will sit (eating/drawing/singing etc) for around 45 mins at age 3 with no effort whatsoever, a boy will be head first off the settee within 5 mins of settling down to watch his fav movie.
Make a pact to not even bother trying to get him to sit still until he is at least five, by which time he will be well into reception year at school and school will have trained him for you.

I really don't agree with this boy/girl idea. Our boys both sat perfectly happily for 45 mins as described at 3. But not always! I also know girls who never stop.

Between the ages of 3 and 4, my ds was a nightmare. I dreaded taking him anywhere because he would throw major tantrums, hit, kick and bite other children, run off and not listen to me etc. He left nursery with a statement of SEN and I was at my wits end with him.

FWIW, he'd had a very hard time when his dad and I split up and then his grandma (my mum) died, but I tried to be consistent with him, never let him get away with his behaviour and used time out and taking away toys along with an explanation of why I was punishing him.

He's now 6 and a different little boy. He's polite, well behaved and doing well at school. There is light at the end of the tunnel, just be consistent and try to make a huge fuss of him when he is behaving well. I know it's hard, I've been there!

Have you tried giving him a high dose of fish oils? My DS has them and although they took a few weeks to "kick in" he is much more in control of himself

My DS also has melatonin to help him sleep

Just a thought - does he have big tonsils? My son used to wake up because they obstructed his airway

I have tried to get him to take fish oils but can't find one he will willingly take. He'll take it for a few days with bribes and then start to refuse to open his mouth. I give him fish at least twice a week though but maybe I'll try the fish oils again.
He was up three times again last night. Starting the day when you're already shattered does not help. I'm already looking forwards to bedtime!

DD was like this, head and shoulders above other kids and a whirling dervish ! Not so much aggressive but rough. Other parents tutted at us a lot. Luckily she has always slept though.Tiredness used to kick her off and hunger. Raising the spirited child was useful, I learnt me and dd are opposites and learnt a different way to communicate with her. The important thing you need to know is there is nothing wrong with your ds. Other kids are like this . You probably feel you have the only kid like this and wonder what youre doing wrong like I did .As hard as it is it will pass. Nursery was great for my dd and school has been a godsend. You do need to be consistent with punishments (dd used to sit in hallway) but I learnt sometimes dd couldnt help what she had done and Id hold my screaming child and explain what was happenining to her. Sometimes punishing isnt helpful. Dd is five now and lovely and polite. She will never be a calm sit still sort of child but then she wouldnt be her if she was ! I would push for help with sleep though, everything seems a million times worse when youre tired.

Yes, if he has disturbed your sleep you must start the day already feeling worn down and negative.

Sounds daft but perhaps you could go to bed with him then if you wake at 4, or whenever, just lie and read or watch recorded tv (so having some child free time) until getting up time.

Children probably pick up their parent's emotions so if you are calmer and more rested his behaviour might improve.

Ineed

Sorry I sounded a bit judgy yesterday. Of course we all shout at times, and of course we love our children. Age 3 is the hardest, IMO, especially with a baby as well.

It just happens, that in my case, having smone to talk to (as well as all the practical suggestions) helped take the heat and the emotion out of my attempts to deal with my DCs

hmc

I got a bit riled at your suggestion that someone who thought counselling is a good idea must be mad

If you read my post I was referring to the specific person suggesting counselling, not that anyone suggesting it is bonkers - I would have thought that was perfectly plain sheesh

He does not sleep at all when I'm in the room with him and definitely won't sleep next to me. He chats instead. We went abroad for a few nights and really he should have been shattered. He was up early, playing on beach and in the pool and walked for miles and miles every day. But because he was sharing a hotel room with us was not asleep before midnight any night and then would wake up in the night and chatter. Even though we ignored him. We came home feeling more tired than when we went!

I think the first thing is that you need sleep, so you can think straight to help him sleep! I see you're a SAHM - does this mean all 7 days of broken sleep are your department? Because that's not reasonable. DH and I have a lie-in till 9 apiece at the weekend. And in the week there's no reason your DH can't do the 11.30pm settle at least twice. If it's always been you your DS might insist it's you that gets up, but you have to persevere.

Secondly - is there any way that you could start nursery now? Just a couple of mornings perhaps? And you could make a point of going back to bed?

On a very simple practical level, do you have a partner/husband? Could he deal with your son for a couple of nights while you sleep, to get your strength and patience ready?

things to have checked out:

is the size of a six year old
high energy
short concentration span
doesn't sleep
overtired
he hasn't napped in the day since he turned two and although he is usually asleep by 7.30 he is up about 6ish and still wakes (and wakes me up) at least twice - but often three of four times - every night
he has slept through three times since he was born
would not sit still
ds is sensitive to textures and noises
very easily put off
if he can't do something the first time he will lie on the floor and scream in frustration and then won't try again
once he is in this frame of mind it is hard to get him out of it
unbelievably competitive and turns everything into a race or competition
if he has decided he doesn't want to do something it is practically impossible to convince him otherwise
overstimulated or overexcited when out places and it makes his behaviour worse.
there was someone else on the swing today and he sat on the floor in a huddle saying 'I'll never have a turn. No turn for me. No swings for me.?
this morning he had a fifteen minute sulk because he couldn't get a spinning top to spin fast enough
very sociable in a lot of ways, but more so with older children
we went abroad for a few nights and really he should have been shattered. he was up early, playing on beach and in the pool and walked for miles and miles every day. but because he was sharing a hotel room with us was not asleep before midnight any night and then would wake up in the night and chatter.

worry he will never cope when starting school

things to think about:
we ignored him (i know why. but try teaching him settling strategies, like having a story he goes through in his head, putting new pictures to it as he goes along)
I am constantly on edge waiting for him to misbehave (so every time he does a small thing 'wrong', you'll notice - maybe keep a list of his good behaviours? i suppose that's where a star chart is useful)
I don't think he is especially bright (you're his mum, you know him best. but don't rule out his being very intelligent).

i've lost my list of very common three year old behaviour, like snatching and whining...

when i put all the things together that you said about your son, i recognised a lot of myself as a child. not sleeping/frustrated when things don't work as well as he wished/ thinking he'd never get a go on the swings - that one is very, very telling!/sensitive to textures and noises... and more.

i really feel for him. of course, i should feel for you too because you're knackered, but my sympathies are with him at the moment because he won't have any idea why he does what he does or why you don't like it. being him is all he can do.

if you can, stop feeling ashamed. have your son's behaviours checked out - you might find out there are reasons for him being as he is, and they aren't necessarily negative. don't try to everything yourself and then be frustrated with the result...hang on, does that remind you of anyone?

IME it is all down to the sleep or lack of it! My DS has only just started to sleep through- he has just turned 5. He is a different child. I have not done anything to bring about this change, I think he's just grown out of it. I tried strategies when he was younger but they didn't work as he is a sleep walker and talker.

You do sound negative about a very young child that will not even understand that well what you expect of him. It is totally normal for a tired 3 year old to be frustrated about waiting to go on the swings for example. You should not be thinking that he's negative. You talk about him as if you've abstained from responsibility for him. You are going to be fundamental in how he behaves at this age. It reads like you've been dealt a bad Hand with him and you seem to have adopted quite a fatalistic view of it all. You can't think like that if you want him to turn out ok, you are his advocator. If someone had said the things your friend did to me, I would've had a few things to say in response, I wouldn't have agreed with my silence. You need to think about this in a totally different way as it is not going to improve as he gets older if you resign yourself to thinking there is something wrong with him and that you're ashamed of him. He is 3!

I didn't mean that you go to bed WITH him but meant you go to bed when he goes to bed eg 7pm and get your 8 hours that way. Sorry, didn't explain it properly.

If you have a DH, get some earplugs, put small mattress on kitchen floor, stay with friend, just do what it takes to get some sleep and sod what 'normal behaviour' is.

JamieandTheOlympicTorch I do not have anything against counselling, have had some myself, but having a mad bonkers 3 year old who doesnt sleep I would find someone abnormal if they werent stressed and pissed off.

OP get yourself some medised maybe if you used it for 2/3 nights he might get used to sleeping through. I am in no way qualified to tell you to drug and sedate your child just thats what I would do.
Basically what love bunny described that could of been my son at 3 apart from sleeping issues, but then at 3 he did come and sleep with me most nights. Just keep in mind it does get better.

Oh and do you think children starting school are ready for it from day 1 you're wrong. The institutional life that is school is often a big shock to the system and behaviour can be even more challenging. I think it really tests your ability to cope as a parent but it is just a phase that will run its course by the end of reception.

OP I really do think a lot of what you describe is 3 year old boys.
There is a huge difference in boys ro girls, their brains are wired differently to ours.
my ds1 will be 5 next weekwnd and my ds2 is 3 now ao I know this stage well.
my ds1 is a stubborn one and i struggled when he was 3. he didn't cope too well with nursery, wouldn't sit still wouldn't do any of his writing etc, but he is much better nowhe still tries to start arguments and he is a little windup merchant but we are starting to manage it better.
this will pass.
my only advice would be to lower your expectations of him and give him small goals. so what if he doesn't want to sit at a table and talk to a bunch of boring grownups. i wouldn't even bother making mine sit down. we tend to go to places where they can walk around or play so there's no force.
pick your battles. make rulea that he sits for a drink or for food and let him have some control.
this will pass.

OP I think your description of your son is painfully negative. Boys are a lot like that! Don't compare him with a girl, especially one half a year older. And do treasure him for his boyishness, even when it means noise and broken things.

lovebunny
high energy
doesn't sleep
he hasn't napped in the day since he turned two and although he is usually asleep by 7.30 he is up about 6ish and still wakes (and wakes me up) at least twice - but often three of four times - every night
he has slept through three times since he was born
ds is sensitive to textures and noises

I could say all these things about my son, 4. He has slept through the night twice since birth.
He wakes repeatedly. 0-2.5, woke on average 8 x a night
Now only 3-4 x

Extremely sensitive, squeals with delight about a funny word, seeing a cat, a yellow truck or whatever, screams with rage about a perceived slight, roars with laughter during games, sobs his heart out when upset, even hearing a slightly sad story.

It is hard to comprehend he is related to his sister, the quietest, deepest-sleeping, most easy-going child imaginable.

just to pick up on what Elizaregina said - I agree that if other parents see you are making an effort to address difficult behaviour, and that includes acknowledging and apologising if someone else's child is actually hurt by your DS, that really makes all the difference.

there are children who are violent and aggressive and whose parents don't take it seriously or ignore it. They are the ones who give other parents and children a whole set of problems because what the hell do you do? I don't judge someone who is clearly having a very hard time, but I do judge people who sit on their arse while their kid attacks other children leaving them bruised and scared.

BTW, it is a bit tricky working out what to do or say when someone else's kid is massively playing up and obviously giving them a nightmare day. If you give them a bit of space to deal with it, it can look like you are avoiding them - if you try and say something sympathetic, it can be misinterpreted. I am cringing a bit now because I commented on someone's very lively DS not giving them a moment to sit down the other day. i did offer to get her a drink or keep an eye on her Ds while she want to the toilet, I wasn't just passing comment - but what do you say? Something or nothing?

FWIW, I don't think 'I'm glad that isn't my child', but I do think 'I'm glad mine isn't like that TODAY and I hope that parent doesn't think they're the only ones with a monster!' There is a difference....

i wilk just add though (not read whole thread) that ime a strongminded child will not respond to toddler taming. is a horrible book imo.
there are much better and more positive books out there. the incredible years. how to talk so children will listen ect.