....to want to ban page 3???

[DianaVreeland]

I remember seeing a page 3 girl for the first time when I was about 6 as my neighbour bought the Sun. I cringed inwardly, and haven't stopped feeling the same since. I have 5 nieces 3 nephews and my own 2 sons.....I hope they could grow up without seeing images of women objectified like this. Clearly I am not showing this to them but at some point I know they will. Does anyone else feel the same?

I think I also said that rape doesn't happen because we are unequal. If you've forgotten, men get raped too. It happens because, like I said, some people can't accept the word no and must force themselves onto people. Nothing to do with equality. You cant use that as an excuse for every bad thing that happens to women, or if you don't get your own way

krum dont be daft nobody can force anybody to wear make up if they dont want to and if they tried there are many many steps you can take to challenge it.

In what way am I not getting my own way?
I don't agree with you. Why is that irritating? You brought it up lol.
I know that there is a huge amount of evidence that women are treated unequally and that rape is a product of that. It is endemic. And rape culture affects the attitudes of rapists. The fact that almost no convictions take place obviously affects the attitudes of rapists.
You name changed then?

No but if there is a culture that normalises it and pressurises covertly people won't complain they just comply Sock.

Rape is used widely as a weapon of war. If that isn't indicative of a patriarchy, I don't know what is.

I mean women not getting their own way, in general.

Yes I'm a name changer. Do you recognise me?

Loads of jobs for women have compulsory makeup.
Apart from that "business dress" in many industries includes makeup.
I am always a bit baffled by people who have never encountered this.

Oh getting rid of page 3 will mean that schoolgirls don't need to sit next to men ogling it on the tube, and girls and women won't have to put up with men eyeing page 3 and then eyeing them.

"If you feel yourself inequal to men than you're going to be treated as such."

This is one of teh most wildly offenisive things I have seen on MN in a long long time.

Well done!

I think air hostesses are pretty much obliged to wear make up, aren't they?Sales assistants at Abercrombie and Fitch probably are too

Get a grip sardine. If you feel unequal than that's your problem. I feel very equal to men, funny that since I'm one of the ones you lot bang on about being 'objectified' and all that.

Oh and no-one should feel obliged to wear makeup, no-one should be forced to. But that's nothing to do with equality.

I disagreed with the person who felt that some women covered up their jealousy by saying its the equality issue they're bothered about. I'm starting to agree.

krum so now we have changed from being forced to wear make up to complying with the norm.
not quite the same is it

People who think it's about jealousy are generally people who are unwilling/unable to properly engage with the debate, IMO.

You didn't answer. Do you think racism is just made up in all the heads of non white people? And is homophobia all the mind of gay people?
Or is it just women who you think make up their obvious oppression?

In my opinion water many people could actually be using that as an excuse, the same when a porn topic comes up and suddenly so many women are instantly bothered about the poor porn actress and how she is being used. Nothing to do with the fact their husbands ads wanting it

You may feel like you are equal and I believe we are equal too. But that doesn't mean we are TREATED equally by society.

Are watching it*

Whats this jealousy you keep saying about?

Men AND women are treated badly, in different ways.

Ghost From a purely personal perspective, I don't have an issue with my husband finding other women attractive. I don't have a problem with him flirting with female colleagues or flirting with women on a night out. (He's an excellent flirt and I certainly don't begrudge him that- flirting is fun!)

I do have a problem with porn. Not with him watching porn, but with the porn itself. He does occasionally use porn, as far as I know, although less than he used to. I have explained my views to him and he respects my right to have those views. It is absolutely not about jealousy (or indeed envy). If I envied a porn actress then I'd have to have a pretty sad life and a very dim view of myself. I am extremely grateful that I don't have to earn my money doing that.

Incidentally Ghost, I felt the same way about porn when I was a single woman when it certainly had nothing to do with being jealous of what men were looking at.

Oh ok and are gay and straight people both treated badly too? And black and white people? and rich and poor?
Do you see how the extent to which people are systematically mistreated makes a difference?

I think people like you Krumbum create more divide than any other.

How?