to be shocked by the unpleasant tone of some Mumsnetters?!

[oohdaddypig]

So - I've not been on mumsnet for very long. In the main most posters sound like lovely, supportive women - a bit like my mates but online. Sometimes there are good debates - and disagreements - nothing wrong with that.

But, deep breath, there seems to me to be a minority - but a reasonably sizeable minority - who seem to delight in being thoroughly unpleasant and downright aggressive to others.

I hasten to add this hasn't been directed at me (yet!)

But I read a number of threads - often about seemingly innocuous subjects, sometimes less so, and WHOAH - they turn pear shaped and, IMHO downright nasty or bitchy.

I know exactly what some responses to this will be (I'm thickening my skin in preparation) but is it too much to hope that internet posters adopt basic standards of politeness? Why does it sound like many mumsnetters are spoiling for a fight?

Which to my mind means, at the very least, not typing what you wouldn't be prepared to say to someone's face.

There's no entrance exam or Mummocratic Oath to join MN, anyone with Internet access and an email address can join.

So what you're really saying is, 'AIBU to be surprised that there are some nasty people in the world?'

...yes. Yes, you are.

"Which to my mind means, at the very least, not typing what you wouldn't be prepared to say to someone's face."

I do type what I say to people's faces. And sometimes that isn't polite or nice or sweet or whatever you think it's suppose to be.

I would say it someone's face- the only exception being babynames where you have to be diplomatic and not say what you really think if someone goes for Elsie or Reggie.

I agree with op. I have no problems with people debating, certain boards being more argumentative than others etc and that sometimes people are offloading/ misunderstanding or even that a reply they've made in humour comes across as terse on line. But I do think there is a strong element of rudeness. However, it's not something specific to mumsnet - it's the whole anonymity of the Internet. If we had to post under our real names I bet more people would make the effort to be polite. But because of the anonymity we're afforded online people can't be arsed with social pleasantries or even following the basic tenants of human society. And I think a lot of the time it is down to either 'can't be arsed' or people just betraying the fact they aren't very nice people. Which is why I don't read YouTube comments anymore.

Does this mean that more people are cunts in real life than we realise? Oh yes. But society has developed rules about how we interact with each other. I'm sure this won't be agreed with by many as we have a culture of individuality (which is def not a bad thing) but one that now seems to means many people don't recognise they belong in a society. They say what they want purely because they have the right to, and why the hell should they concern themselves with interacting with others politely if they don't want to? Well, because most of us need society, whether the wish to recognise this fact or not, so we need to behave in a way that isn't damaging to society. We don't laugh at people who have just been bereaved, for example. We generally empathise with people who are having a hard time. We act in a way (and I'm not talking about false people here) to keep society smooth. However, with the 'I don't give a fuck' attitude becoming so prevalent on the net, I see it bleeding into rl. And I find this scary. People are so wrapped up in the fact they can express their own apathy or contempt or disgust at something they forget that there are real people on the other side of posts. People with real feelings, flawed as any other. I disagree with those who say forums and the net aren't real life. Of course they are. Are there robots making these posts? Do we post in our sleep? No, there are people with feelings who often will be affected by reactions. Saying 'oh, it's not real life' are being naively flippant. We discuss real life issues here. We like praise here. How can they not understand that a forum being online doesn't immediately stop comments being hurtful.

I don't think pussyfooting is correct but I do think people confuse pussyfooting with basic politeness. It costs nothing and I can't help but feel people who disagree with this principle are usually the people who are rude themselves (am NOT referring to the op who used the term pussyfooting earlier btw - the word just stuck on my head). But it reminds me of a forum I used to go on, where there was a woman who prided herself on 'telling it like it was' - a very rude and aggressive person who had a lot of supporters purely, I suspect, because people were too scared to get on her wrong side. 'Oh, I don't care about whatever other people think - this is my opinion and I'm not going to dress it up to save anyone's feelings.'. But her opinions were just rude - not profound, like she thought, but just someone who couldn't be arsed to be polite so turned it into an aggressive personality type. 'People don't get on with me because they can't handle my truths!' oh please. People couldn't get on with her because she was dressing rudeness and a lack of social respect for other people as some kind of desirable personality trait.

Some posters that you may be referring too,have not had easy lives.They themselves have sometimes been bullied,and some seem to have children that are being bullied.
They find real life a challenge,and come on Mumsnet to let off steam,sometimes inappropriately.
The one thing I would suggest is that it can be especially uncertain on MN late in the evening,and bed may be the better option.

I agree with everything you have said OP.

Don't go antsy, you'll only regret it.

Ive often felt really embarrassed, I've written a comment and been pulled up on it, read it back and realised it was clumsy. I've learned a lot here! Also that the most unlikely threads can go wild in no time.

Back off if you're feeling upset, there's always someone nice to chat with somewhere else here.

'Mummocratic Oath' snurk

Only read the OP - Tbh I wouldn't dream of joining a forum and then telling people how I expect them to behave. The internet is a huge place, if one forum isn't right for you or makes you feel uncomfortable then there's always another one just round the corner.

It's like walking into a pub and expecting to get on with everyone and wanting everyone to be friendly and act the same - never going to happen and unrealistic to think it will.

Well...I used to be offended by the word "cunt" until I read a lot of posts on here......so at least MN has cured me of something !

I definitely think some people on here have a tendency to say more outlandish things or be more verbally aggressive on here than they would be in real life. But then I'm also sure that there are a minority that would quite happily come up to my face and call me a "cunt".....Which would result in me kicking them right in their's.

I find that the one's that are really missing the point and being a twat are very easy to shut up, though.

It is always advantagous to be intelligent and knowledeable, but be able to drop to gutter level.

Most of the time i just think that it must be very unpleasant living in their world and feel sorry for them.

"Which to my mind means, at the very least, not typing what you wouldn't be prepared to say to someone's face."

Surely part of the beauty of online forums, besides the mass number of people you can ask in a short time, is that you'll get very, very honest replies. People do not always give you honest replies in real life.

I have read some terrible posts directed at OP's that are clearly emotionally frail and there is no excuse, or reason, other than the poster is a bully.

If you have no knowledge on a subject, such as growing up in an abusive family, but still having contact as an adult, then just stay off that thread, no need to come out with what some do.

Spot on, Gabeesh.

badgeroncaffeine

Your post:

''Very true, there are a good number of totally unpleasant losers on here. But you have to remember 2 golden rules:

1. Giving any reaction that suggests you're bothered/annoyed/upset and they win. Ignore it (preferably), or laugh at them and you win
2. Never respect the words if you don't respect the person. Would you respect those losers?

Anyone noticed how a lot of these people have a swear word in their name? One in particular springs to mind!''

Alluding to a poster with hints and winks and nudges is just as unpleasant as the behaviour you are critiscising. So I for example might read that and put you in the Totally Unpleasant Loser pile.

Fourfingerkitkat
That is interesting and I know it gets raised often but I am nit sure how often it applies

Even the rude posts are rarely in response to nothing. So it wouldn't be the equivalent of someone just walking up to you and calling you a cunt. It would be in response to your saying something outlandish in their face that offended them.

The whole nature of the discussion is one that is held without repercussions so people often say things that they would never say in real life.
So no, I don't often call people a cunt in their faces in real life. But rarely do I get 'well frankly I think asd is often bad parenting' or 'i think retard is fine and I will use it if I like' or 'that old bag touched my baby' while I am out and about.
In those circumstance I may well say 'well that's marvellous but makes you a bit if a cunt. Cheerio'

There aren't many cuntshouters. There are a few ridiculously inappropriately aggressive posters but I always wonder why when people say 'well would you really say that in real life' , they only focus on the swearing.
Sone of the most offensive things I read on here have little or no profanity.

Honey, did you see I called soneone a tedious cunt yesterday?

I liked Gabeesh's social analysis.

Psychological studies show that our behaviour and actions are modified by us considering what others' opinion of us will be, and how our reputation will be affected. Remember the one with the poster over the honesty box?

But on here, we are anonymous, and can lose a bad reputation in a second by name-changing. So the normal social glue doesn't stick properly. The only thing keeping us on the straight and narrow is our own moral code and empathy, and some folks have more of those than others.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep. .At 'mummocratic oath'.
Hilarious

lol at Heathers.

I agree with you to an extent OP - there are some complete fuckwits on here (mostly those who do not venture much outside AIBU) but to me the nice people on MN vastly outweigh the morons.

I don't engage with them - I can't be bothered to argue or pull them up on their nonsense, that is the kind of attention they thrive on I imagine.

A lot of people think its ok to write things on an internet forum that they would never dream of saying in real life!

Pagwatch is right - the most nasty posts I have seen on here have involved no swearing or personal attacks. Usually DISINGENUOUS and spiteful statements.

I think part of the issue is that the rules are not applied equally. Certain posters' rude and personal posts are allowed to stand for many hours if not days, whereas others are instantaneously deleted. This endorsement of certain posters and views by the "moderators" (for want of a better word) can subtly but, over time,definitively, shift the entire direction of a site.

There are many posters on the relationships board who do remind me of the tricoteuses during the French revolution, encouraging the guillotine to fall on relationships and enjoying the show whilst doing nothing to help. There also seems to be an overwhelming recommendation of a Lundy Bancroft book. Are people paid to promote it?I have never seen another book even mentioned.

Ultimately, although MN is professionally managed and a great and well devised forum, if it is allowed to be dominated by small cliques and pressure groups, people will vote with their mice and go elsewhere (which would be a shame).

Well, it depends what kind of behaviour you find most unpleasant. Lots of people object to MN because of its rather forthright culture. That's fair enough.

However, from my point of view, I'd rather be told I was an arrogant prat, or see someone else be called an arrogant prat, than browse MN to find a thinly disguised hate thread by one of the other MNer's friends. That's far nastier. I've only seen that a few times, but every time I do, the people who start the thread go on my Black Spreadsheet.

" Certain posters' rude and personal posts are allowed to stand for many hours if not days, whereas others are instantaneously deleted. "

Often seen complaints about this, never seen it happen. Deletions are slower at nights/weekends, even if someone has made a major balls-up like accidentally posting their name and is frantically emailing MNHQ begging for deletion.

Of course, some people do mine the rich seam of differentiation between, 'The way you have expressed that opinion makes you sound like an ignorant cunt' and,'You are an ignorant cunt'. But you can't blame MNHQ for that, they have to draw the line somewhere and that's where it is.