to mention what I believe to be SN in a friend's child?

[worrywortisworrying]

OK... I'm putting this in AIBU not because I want a bun fight, but that I need advice quickly from ALL MNers. If it turns nasty, I will ask for the thread to be pulled.

I need advice TONIGHT on what I should say to a friend.

Situation:
My friend has a child a little older than my DS. She is struggling terribly with him. SHe wants to 'chat' tonight as she's had a very tough day (I am more than happy to do this). The trouble is, I believe her son is ASD (my son is, has a diagnosis now and we are getting more appropriate help (even though it's still tough sometimes) because we know how to respond / react to DS and how to manage certain situations.). Her DS is just like mine.

I do not think my friend has EVER considered ASD (even though I've talked about my DS AT LENGTH!). In fact, I would go to say, she's been a little 'sorry' for me (what with my ASD child but that's another matter!)

He is struggling at school A LOT and she has resorted to smacking him as she's frustrated he won't (I believe CAN'T) do what she wants him to do.
(I should add: I don't SEE this friend too much, we mostly telephone as while we are old friends, we don't live very close to each other now)

When she phones tonight, I want to say: Look, You need to ask for an assessment. You need to contact the Child Development Centre. If it comes back that it's not ASD, then great, but you need to DO SOMETHING NOW.

But, I'm not sure if I'm overstepping the mark BIG TIME.

We don't really have mutual friends anymore, so no idea what the school are / aren't saying to her.

AIBU to say - completely outright - that she should seek an assessment now?
(Her DS is 5. Mine is 4. One school year difference, but less than that in real terms).

Please just - yes, I should say something or No, I should listen, but nothing else.

I you're right to be hurt and she reacted badly. However I do remember how I felt when we were trying to work out what my son's problems were - and accept the fact that he might have a problem - and a friend of mine suggested he might have Fragile X, like her son. I'm afraid I actually thought she almost wanted ds to have it, so that I would be in the club with her, and I really strongly resisted the idea that he was as 'bad' as her boy. Actually DS is dyspraxic and had a speech delay and has since made great progress and her ds has much more serious issues - and she has continued to be extremely supportive and pleased for all the advances ds has made and I now understand that it was genuine empathy and concern that made her say that. It is quite a fragile place to be in I remember when you realise your precious child might not be 'perfect' and I have come a long way since! I am sure you can be a good friend to her and hopefully she will be able to get a diagnosis, concentrate on getting help and become a bit more educated about SEN!

DO NOT suggest a doctor - the child is not "ill", they will not get "better" - their brain is wired differently.
Little white lie time.
Talk about an amalgamated child from park / singing / nursery - something easy to remember and recast your friends child as that child getting support and the relief it has been
your friend will take umbrage - my oldest friend did.
She knew but was in denial. But luckily when she accepted that her DD was actually severely ASD and accepted the support everything got better
except the kid who will be a PITA all her life but so be it.

PS
re her taking it badly.
the REALLY hard conversation we had a while back with our friends was the one where they had finally realised that their DD will never be able to live a truly independent life as she has NO awareness of the thoughts of others
therefore driving will probably be out, as will managing a house.
It was hard - but we got there.

You've pissed her off but for the best of reasons and it will blow over - slowly.

This thread has been really interesting to me as I was chatting with my ds at the weekend about telling each other if our dc had a problem... we decided we wouldn't, so it's good to see a range of opinion here.

FWIW, I think you did the right thing. It's obv doing not good for your friend just gettng angrier with her poor ds. Her ds doesn't sound very happy either. And frankly, I hate it when people talk about kids being 'special' - in the Sn sense. Eew.

It sounds as if your friend just used you to offload so perhaps having a break from the friendship for a while won't be a disaster for you?? At least you have told her what you think, so when she calms down she may be able to think about it rationally. What about her husband??? what does he think?

HUgs!

If someone feels they have to say something isn't it better to suggest they seek help with the child's behaviour as opposed to telling them there is something wrong with their DC. If I had a pal who had trouble getting their DC to sleep properly they wouldn't offended if I suggested a sleep therapist surely the same would go for suggesting something like a child Behaviour therapist.

Well you've done what you thought was right, and if she's upset it's probably because you've hit a raw nerve. FWIW I think you did the right thing, you've tried to help and it may get her to seek help too, eventually.

The problem is that some people just don't want to be told, and I think you may have kind have known this before the call, since you were concerned about her reaction. I have a friend who has two children who in my opinion are a little different and she has been approached by school regarding getting one of them assessed,she refused as she did to it want them labelled. She spoke to me about it, and I probably should have said something, but really she just wanted me to not tell her the school was right. She just wanted a sounding board.

People are complex but I think you did the right thing telling her. I do not think I did the right thing by not.

I really hope she comes round op and realizes it's not about getting a label orbeing special or admitting your child isn't perfect it's about getting children the help and support they need to
Make it through an educational setting, to learn tactics on dealing with behavioue and getting to see the specialists needed to combat issues that may occur in the future. U did a very brave thing !!! :(

"except the kid who will be a PITA all her life but so be it."

not loving a child with severe ASD (like my DD) being described as a PITA tbh.

Fanjo
I was describing that one single child as a PITA. I have no comment to make on yours or any other child as each is unique. BUT that particular one has wiring arrangements in her brain that make her extremely hard work. She's improving. The school have worked wonders. But in her case I stand by my comment.
And I will continue to think it even when I book holidays with her and the rest of her family.

oh I absolutely understand she might be hard work.

BUT that particular one has wiring arrangements in her brain that make her extremely hard work

Aww, TalkinPeace2, that's not a reason to describe a severly ASD child as a PITA, though, is it?

that is offensive TalkinPeace2 and I think you know that

Wiring arrangements? Sounds like something my Mum would say

'DO NOT suggest a doctor - the child is not "ill", they will not get "better" '

That is complete nonsense - how else will you diagnose and treat developmental disorders?

All, I do appreciate all the feedback (and kind words).

Please don't get too het up about words people use. Our SN kids ARE wired differently. It's not worse... not better.

My son can be a right royal PITA, talkingtopeace, but then I'm sure yours can too IN fact, I'd very much like someone to show me a child (or adult) that isn't a PITA at times.

My DS has his issues, and some of them can leave me blindsided, but I've yet to see a mother who never has a bad day / tantrumming child / feels they have lost control.

There are MANY MANY NT children who go off the rails etc., just as there are many SN children who go on to lead happy, productive lives.

The point is, you just never know. So best off not getting on your high horse about it.

Was offended, rather than being on 'high horse'

I have two dc with ASD and I would have been very unhappy had any of my friends mentioned ASD to me. I think people underestimate how devastating it may feel. I have seen children where I recognise some of the signs but unless I was specifically asked and it was clear the parents were looking at SN I would not say anything. My closest friend clearly saw my youngest had ASD but did not bring it up until I did. She recognised I wasn't,t ready to go there and respected that. I will always be grateful for her sensitivity. I think you intervened for the best of motives but I am not surprised it didn't go well.

Also talking peace I dislike the way you say you had to get your friends to accept that their dd would never be independent. frankly I dont see it being anyone else's job or even business to get me to accept or admit anything. Parents of disabled children often say they take ach day at a time because thinking about the future is both upsetting and worrying as well as being difficult to predict due to the nature of their Childrens difficulties. Who are you to decide the parents must face these issues before they are ready to?

Triggles I do agree with what you are saying but just wanted to point out that it wasn't me who raised the first concerns with my friend's ds but the nursery he went to and I'm going on behaviours she's described to me, not soley on what I've seen.
However I think Worry is in a slightly different situation because she's seeing a child being punished for things he possibly can't help so there are consequences for not saying anything as well.

Pixel I think you have hit on a key point. The thought of a 5 year old who may not understand social / behaviour codes being sworn at and hit for that possible gap in his understanding is very very saddening.

I think how bad I felt that I had been telling DS2 off for standing right in front of the telly, then got his eyes tested and realised he was severely long sighted. I think this case could be much worse.

worrywort I think you were almost damned if you did and damned if you didn't. At least you tried.

worry I think you did the right thing. It does not sound as if she has been a supportive friend to you, with her negative attitude and language towards your son's condition.
She sounds as if she would always shoot the messenger.

Chazs - that is what really worries me. I remember my mum telling me to smack my DS when he was about 2YO. I would say I knew there was something different going on with DS from about 8-9 months. I refused and we had a bit of an argument a discussion about it.

She only saw it my way when I put it like this to her: If I asked you to get on a trampoline and do a somersault, could you do it? (she was waiting for a hip op at this time, and found walking painful... the answer was a resounding NO!) If I belted you every time you said you couldn't do it, would you be able to do it? Answer still NO.

Yes, my DS can be challenging, in that he doesn't respond to certain social situations the way you would EXPECT. But, it's far better to understand WHY, and what we can do to help rather than to batter a square peg into a round hole.

I am going to send my friend a PM on FB today. I'm going to reaffirm what I think she should do and then make it clear that I won't continue to force my friendship or views on her but also state that, regardless of what the issues are, I do not condone smacking. I might regret it, but I'll regret leaving it more.

You are trying so hard for your friend and I believe you have nothing but good intentions! I don't think there is any way that it was ever gonna sound good and maybe she just wasn't ready to hear but the longer you left it the longer her ds would go without the support he needs and that would have jeopodised his whole future given that many autistics have made it through mainstream education and have done well for themselves. Fingers crossed she calms down and sees what you were trying to say and realizes that pointing this out is not criticizing her child and that actually it wasn't easy to say something but you felt for his sake you had to try. :(

Well. If the thread illustrates nothing else it is showing how 'special' is fast on track to becoming an insult.

[sigh]

If someone said to me 'is your son special' my reply would be 'what the actual fuck are you talking about?'

I would never tell someone that their child was like mine or that I suspected sn. I would say (and have said) "you are frustrated and knackered and have tried everything. Would this not be a good time to speak to the GP to get him assessed in case there is something going on that may be causing him extra problems"

Op, your intention was good. Hopefully your friend will realise that and get some help