to mention what I believe to be SN in a friend's child?

[worrywortisworrying]

OK... I'm putting this in AIBU not because I want a bun fight, but that I need advice quickly from ALL MNers. If it turns nasty, I will ask for the thread to be pulled.

I need advice TONIGHT on what I should say to a friend.

Situation:
My friend has a child a little older than my DS. She is struggling terribly with him. SHe wants to 'chat' tonight as she's had a very tough day (I am more than happy to do this). The trouble is, I believe her son is ASD (my son is, has a diagnosis now and we are getting more appropriate help (even though it's still tough sometimes) because we know how to respond / react to DS and how to manage certain situations.). Her DS is just like mine.

I do not think my friend has EVER considered ASD (even though I've talked about my DS AT LENGTH!). In fact, I would go to say, she's been a little 'sorry' for me (what with my ASD child but that's another matter!)

He is struggling at school A LOT and she has resorted to smacking him as she's frustrated he won't (I believe CAN'T) do what she wants him to do.
(I should add: I don't SEE this friend too much, we mostly telephone as while we are old friends, we don't live very close to each other now)

When she phones tonight, I want to say: Look, You need to ask for an assessment. You need to contact the Child Development Centre. If it comes back that it's not ASD, then great, but you need to DO SOMETHING NOW.

But, I'm not sure if I'm overstepping the mark BIG TIME.

We don't really have mutual friends anymore, so no idea what the school are / aren't saying to her.

AIBU to say - completely outright - that she should seek an assessment now?
(Her DS is 5. Mine is 4. One school year difference, but less than that in real terms).

Please just - yes, I should say something or No, I should listen, but nothing else.

Yes you should say something.

She is asking for help, so give it to her :)

Rather than saying 'I think your son has ASD' could you ask a bit more subtly? Maybe ask if she has spoken to the school about it - if she hasn't suggest that...if she has ask if they've suggested an assessment.

This is really difficult. If you have good grounds for your opinion putting the child's interests first dictate that you should speak. But I'd hesitate to form an opinion based only on conversations about the child.

You know you will never get a straight yes or no don't you?

IIWY then I would only gently suggest that she seeks referral if she says that she has concerns herself.

I would never say it outright

of course you should say something. She might not want to hear it, but at least you know you tried to help.

Tricky!

I would say what you are planning to. It's possible that it has been lurking in the back of her mind and she is just in denial.

She might fall out with you, but at least it has been raised and he does turn out to have ASD if you've left things with an open door she can come back to you for advice.

Say what you wrote that sounds great.

Yes, you should say something. Couched in the gentlest terms you can manage, but definitely yes.

Yes

I would say to her that is he is really struggling at school then she should seek the views of an EP (or get school to). no need to mention ASD. Simply stress that you know from experience that school problems need to be addressed as qucikly as poss, because otherwise the child risks being alienated from school altogether.

I would but as gently as possible.

Something like 'your DS seems to be showing some behaviours/difficulties that my X did before he was assessed. Have you thought about it?'

FWIW, I have seen her DS several times in the last year (never more than a day or two at a time) and I do truly believe that her son has something similar to my DS (Taking into account that ASD is such a wide and varied condition and there are often other linked behaviours)

I thought maybe I could say 'Have you considered a referal for an assessment? I mean, it can't hinder, can it?'

Also FWIW, She ISN'T calling for advice. She is calling to offload after a shitty day. MOre recently, she is becoming more and more frustrated with her DS (she has called him a little shit (and not in a nice way) on the phone to me recently (Not in his ear shot) and she has begun smacking him.

I'm getting to the point where I really feel I'd prefer to say something and risk our friendship than just ignore it.

I think you should just say something like - you are obviously having a very hard time with him and from what you have told me it looks like his behaviour is on the edges of whats considered "normal" - go to GP and ask for referral for him to be assessed, so that the appropriate help can be sought.

For what its worth my DS is 6 and has anger issues (gets angry quickly) school have referred him to mental health services, they can assess him better than any well meaning friend.

My DS is in trouble at school, but does not have ASD and I still can't get him to listen to me and do what I say, he's just very stubborn. I don't think you should mention that you think it might be ASD.

Also, I've never mentioned that I think her DS has SN, but when talking about my DS (when we got the DX), her response was 'God, I know DS is hard work, but at least he's not special'.

I don't think what I'm planning on saying will go down well.

Remember back inside the beginning with your son? Remember how difficult it was today comprehend anything/something was wrong?

I would say something, but be gentle.
She probably wont thank you for it now, but will in the long run.

My ds7 has ASD...

Foreverondiet - thankyou. That is interesting.

I've done it twice. Both times have been thanked for it in the long run, although one of the mums was very upset at the time.

I would always say. Early intervention is so helpful. And if you're struggling, getting helpful support is always a good thing.

Oh - after your last post I'm not sure it will go down well at all :(

She sounds like hard work. Given that she's 'pleased' her son isn't special ... it might be wise just to listen if you want to keep the friendship, if you aren't too fussed then tell her what you think...

Good luck.

Perhaps you could emphasise how helpful it has been having had your son assessed and diagnosed. Something along the lines about how great it is to know what you are dealing with, what you can do to help you son etc etc. VERY tricky though - I know someone whose son has been recommended for referral by his school, his parents have turned it down as they don't believe there is any need. I have suggested that there would be no harm in exploring the offer but was roundly roasted for it, so have left it and hope that they change their minds.

Suggest that she asks for an assessment, just to rule it out. Much like how the police (on telly) ask for dna to eliminate people as suspects. Rubbish way of explaining it, but maybe someone else can put it more articulatly?

Where is the child's father in all this? What are his views?

I have been in exactly this position twice and neither time did I directly say anything. I would just ask if they had spoken to their doctor, teacher or HV. If the child didn't come up in conversation I would ask about them and bring up previous comments that they had made about the child's behaviour which would lead me to suggesting that perhaps they could speak to a professional.
After one of my friends DC had been diagnosed she told me that she couldn't believe how many people had since told her that they knew there was something wrong with her DC but didn't want to mention it too her. I didn't admit to thinking the same thing. .
In retrospect, knowing the two Mums concerned I still dont know what I would do.
I didn't want to give a 'diagnosis' but I thought giving assurance that if they were worried to not be shy to ask for help from a professional was OK.
Really not sure if thats of any help Sorry . Good luck with this evening, hope it goes well.

I don't think she meant it as terribly as it sounds written down, chipping - Like Shellywelly said... getting that first DX (even when it was utterly expected) can really knock you for 6. I know that, because it happened to me, even though I PUSHED AND PUSHED because I knew that DS wasn't 'getting' things the way other kids 'got' them. I do think she's in utter denial about the whole thing.

I do care (alot) about our friendship, but as I said, it seems to have shifted to her DS being blamed for everything and being punished and that makes me feel so sad. Since I've grown a pair and dealt with DS's DX, we are making so much better progress, and that is showing in DS too - he's able to communicate so much better when he's not dealing with a bag of anxiety and stress. I know all I'll get tonight is 'DS did this' 'DS did that' 'DS is such a bloody idiot'.

I'm actually thinking of saying: ''Everyone is amazing, but if you judge a fish on it's ability to climb a tree, it will spend it's life thinking it's stupid''. That phrase really, really helped me when I was dealing with the assessments / DX. I know it's a bit gushy, but it sums up how I feel about my DS (and hers)

Could you possibly approach it from this angle

Stressed Mum: I find it so hard when DS screeches at the TV (or whatever....)
Worry: Yes, DS used to do that and xyz worked really well. Our SENCO/EP etc is so helpful....etc etc

Just to plant the idea....before suggesting assessment?

you could do what my fabulous friend did to me and suggest that rather than struggle on with trying to discipline her DS, she go to the GP and ask for referral to 'AN Other service' for support and guidance on how best to help him behave

12mths later we had dx of ASD for our 4yr old DD

bittersweet but it's what we needed to do

hth