to mention what I believe to be SN in a friend's child?

[worrywortisworrying]

OK... I'm putting this in AIBU not because I want a bun fight, but that I need advice quickly from ALL MNers. If it turns nasty, I will ask for the thread to be pulled.

I need advice TONIGHT on what I should say to a friend.

Situation:
My friend has a child a little older than my DS. She is struggling terribly with him. SHe wants to 'chat' tonight as she's had a very tough day (I am more than happy to do this). The trouble is, I believe her son is ASD (my son is, has a diagnosis now and we are getting more appropriate help (even though it's still tough sometimes) because we know how to respond / react to DS and how to manage certain situations.). Her DS is just like mine.

I do not think my friend has EVER considered ASD (even though I've talked about my DS AT LENGTH!). In fact, I would go to say, she's been a little 'sorry' for me (what with my ASD child but that's another matter!)

He is struggling at school A LOT and she has resorted to smacking him as she's frustrated he won't (I believe CAN'T) do what she wants him to do.
(I should add: I don't SEE this friend too much, we mostly telephone as while we are old friends, we don't live very close to each other now)

When she phones tonight, I want to say: Look, You need to ask for an assessment. You need to contact the Child Development Centre. If it comes back that it's not ASD, then great, but you need to DO SOMETHING NOW.

But, I'm not sure if I'm overstepping the mark BIG TIME.

We don't really have mutual friends anymore, so no idea what the school are / aren't saying to her.

AIBU to say - completely outright - that she should seek an assessment now?
(Her DS is 5. Mine is 4. One school year difference, but less than that in real terms).

Please just - yes, I should say something or No, I should listen, but nothing else.

All I would say is this:
If any of my friends saw/felt this is any of my kids then I would want to be told. Straight up no messing.

Hey I may get defensive even maybe aggressive. But I would get over it and be Grateful.

Perhaps you could mention how ASD is such a wide spectrum, and how all ASD children are different but that there are similarities. Perhaps she has not considered ASD, although it may not be ASD. But them again perhaps she has and just needs someone to spell it out to her. (I know we did) And perhaps this might be why she phones you OP?
I say YES to telling her, but you may need to modify how you say it. Iyswim. perhaps asking her if she has spoken to a dr about her ds?

Yes, you should say something. You are a good friend and good friends sometimes tell us things we don't want to hear or give us a totally fresh perspective on life. I have a son with SEN and initially was in total denial. It was the school who picked up on it. I would suggest to your friend that as her child is really struggling she has a meeting with the school to discuss her concerns. Mention how helpful and supportive your school have been over obtaining a diagnosis for your child, if this is the case, and even if not mention how relieved you are to finally get the help you need and the real difference it has made. It seems like your friend may need a bit of a wake up call. Good luck

It hasn't gone well. She's just put the phone down on me.

I broached, very gently, the idea of taking it further / asked what the school were saying. (The school are also idiots)

I said that an assessment could harm, and that her DS did remind me of my DS quite a lot (stressing that may or may not be any overlap). She went nutty. Accused me of trying to make her son 'special' too. (At which point I did retaliate and say 'well, his behaviour isn't normal, is it?... Don't suppose I should be proud of that, but still)

She replied 'What? So you really think he is special?'. I said Yes and she put the phone down.

SHit.

couldn't harm. sorry.

Well, at least you have planted the seed. It was probably a shock and obv not a nice thing to hear
I think the better friend would tell her, as you have done
Was it very bad?

Oh tits. :(

She sounds very disparaging in the language she uses, if you don't mind me saying
If her child has problems that need addressing, then she should be getting him the support he needs to help him cope
But I guess you know that already

Sorry it didn't go well
Must say, you're being very patient with her, re the 'special' thing.
hope it all works out, when she's had time to think it over.

I know this is a bit rude and hijacky, but if someone did wonder if their child might have SN, what would be the first steps to take?
Hope you don't mind me asking.

Yes, mention it, as she has asked for help. But be careful how you phrase it, and do NOT mention that you think he has ASD or that he's "just like" your son. It could be any number of things causing the behaviour, as so many things have similar symptoms to ASD (other SNs), and it's frankly irritating to have a friend self-diagnose your child.

Her language is a bit strange!

I was going to suggest that you mention having him assessed so that she could rule out any difficulties which might be affecting his behaviour. Then once (if) difficulties ruled out perhaps she could consider what else might help like parenting classes etc.

She sounds though that she may see sen as a insult about her child.

Oh lord. cross post. I see you mentioned it. I suspect that saying he was like your DS was not the way to go.. combine that with "not normal" and you've got a recipe for disaster. sigh

Aw that's terrible, are you going to call her back or let her mull it over?

My nephew has been referred for speech therapy and my sister is upset, she thinks he doesn't need it. The only reason she's going through with the appt is yo prove her hv 'wrong'. Nephew does have difficulties with his speech, but she doesn't see that.

Hopefully your friend will do what's best for her ds

What is his behaviour like anyway?

I did wonder at the start of the thread that you might just be seeing signs there because of your own child. In the past I've had people on here with sn dcs suggest my dc might have the same as there's. Turns out they don't. I wondered if it makes people hyper aware.

I know myself from having sn in my family i am very aware of anything hinting similar in my own children because Im on the lookout for it.

Well, for me, the first port was the Paed (both of my children were born at the Portland, so our first reference point is the Paed that discharged them, rather than a GP, IYSWIM), from there we got a referall to a clinical Pschycologist and from there (and loads of assessments later) a DX.

Since then, we have accessed the CDC (child development centre) which I think a GP could refer to quicker (and they have been a lot of help)

I think going private got us a DX quicker, but has meant more time waiting to access help / support. Going through the NHS might mean a longer time waiting for the assessments (they are not cheap) but would mean immediate access to support.

As I said, I've grown a pair when it comes to my DS. He's my son. I adore him. I don't give two hoots if he has ASD or 4 legs. He's my son. There isn't a word you could level at him that would upset me that much. He is special. very special. So special that I will never call him a little shit or a bastard or smack him for not doing what I feel he should at that precise second. And I think he will be the better for that.

** Sorry - I'm a tiny bit angry right now.

I'm so sorry it hasn't gone well :(

I've been there myself and had the conversation with a friend, it was horrible, she shouted and swore at me then walked out my front door and has never been in touch since. I have, however, since learned through mutual friends that I was correct, and her daughter was diagnosed with ASD. It doesn't give me any satisfaction in an "I told you so" kind of way, but I do take comfort from the fact I planted a seed which went on to benefit the child.

In the long run, I'm sure you have done the right thing. She might be smarting because you've confirmed something she's been hiding from.

fairhead that's happening in my family too. Other family members won't have it mentioned, they say there is nothing wrong with her speech. There clearly is. The parents say the speech therapist doesn't know what she is talking about. They carry on allowing the older brother to translate meaning the one with speech difficulties doesn't need to try to be understood which Im sure can't help. The child is nearly 6, i can't understand most of what they say but the parents don't pursue help at all.

I'm sorry that was the outcome. I spoke to my friend about what I thought was her sons speech delay and various other health issues a few years ago. We are best friends and I had agonised for months about what to do. In the end it was actually my Mum who persuaded me to talk to her - it worked out ok in the end for us. She just needed someone to articulate what she felt, everyone else was afraid to talk to her . Her son is now getting the support he needs and after a really long hard frustrating fight is starting to see some light.

OK... Being calm... my worries are (having seen these in action on the odd occasion we are together)

1. NO eye contact (but mum taking 10,000 to get ONE where her DC is looking at the camera... and then posting that ONE on FB). OK, I know FB is the work of the devil, but it's overlooking the fact that most parents have to take maybe 2-3 shots of their kids. Not thousands (seriously, thousands) to get one with some sort of eye contact.
2. No emotion. This is where my DS differs (DS is very affectionate). Her DS only makes contact out of frustration or anger.
3. Speech. My DS has delayed speech, but since we adopted a more relaxed stance, he's actually considered within normal range (still low though) Her son is a few months older than DS (but a whole academic year above) and has worse SAL skills.
4. Behaviour: Her DS's behaviour is terrible (and getting worse) . I do take the point that anger issues might be the cause (rather than ASD) but I'm sure being told you are a little shit / bastard / git can't help. Even at 5.

I'm not going to call back, Nor has she called back. I said what I thought was right. I probably lost it with the 'not normal' comment for which I will regret.

I still truly, feel, it's not the child's fault here. Whatever the reasons..

I probably handled it badly

Op. I would have thought a diagnosis would help her understand her child's behaviour a lot more, make her more tolerant and so stop her thinking her child is a little shit for their behaviour?

worry you did the best you could and hopefully you have planted a seed and he will get to dx if that's the right thing as soon as possible.

Poor little lad though.

I do so hate 'special' being used in that derogatory sense.

You lost it a little with the "not normal" comment, but in response to the repeated and pejorative use your friend was making of the word "special", I'm not surprised.

I am grinding my teeth reading your post... my DS is indeed special, wonderful in fact - and he also has AS.

It sounds like your friend has a rather poor attitude towards people with disability/additional needs, though it could be down to denial of her sons issues.

From your descriptions, it does sound likely that her DS has quite serious issues that need support/diagnosis (TBH, sounds like HFA) and you are basically saying she is both physically and mentally abusing her son because he won't behave in a socially acceptable way. She needs help, and so does he, before this all goes horribly wrong. HER behaviour is making things worse, poor lad, he will be struggling at school and coming home to a very unsupportive home life - you are right, the child is not at fault, he is a 5year old with problems.

Is the boys father around? Could you can talk to him about both the DS and the Friend? Or a grandparent?

Leave it for a while.
She's hurting.
Just be there for her when she's ready.