To think England isn't such a great place to live

[Cloudminnow]

Not just the weather, but so much more ...

parking fees everywhere and having to have change at hand (or very expensive pay as you leave - £8.80 to park for an afternoon shopping today!!)

hopeless and expensive public transport system

traffic jams all over the place

terrible customer service

obsession with celebrity culture and all it stands for

union flag and all it stands for

embarrassing monarchy (even having to have one at all)

desperate government

Olympics sponsored by Coke

Education system overly concerned with literacy, numeracy and data at the expense of a love of learning and creativity...

Can anyone sell England to me?!

worldcitizen - I agree with you completely. I think that the UK has the ability to be up there with the best countries in the world, but only if we are willing to look critically at ourselves, see which areas need improving, and draw on the example of other countries where they do things better.

poopoo - fair point though about the fact that people using the European Court doesn't necessarily show that our human rights are worse.

Actually, I think that for all its faults the UK judicial system is one that we can on the whole be justifiably proud of and should fight to defend.

Entitled spuddy that's what they are. Entitled. And it makes me seethe

My kids got pushed in front of by a middle aged couple in an ice cream shop a few years back. In my best Queen Mother voice I said "excuse me! They were here first!". The couple looked at me amazed and started slagging me off in their language. Which, unfortunately for them, I also understand. I let them know this and laughed when they squirmed

I am not from the UK, as you have probably guessed already, and the UK is my most favourite country to travel to and spend my holidays. For the past 20 years now, I am a tourist in the UK and have many, many times contemplated to spend a few years in your country, it was hard to decide where exactly, because I do have quite a few favourite spots.

Edinburgh/Glasgow

York/Leeds

Bristol/Bath

London

Southwest, many places

I love the service, I think the service is very good and not in your face like it is in the U.S., where I lived for 8 years.

The museums, festivals, concerts, cinemas, restaurants, parks, gardens, country-side are first-class.

The Brits (we call you all that) are great and fantastic. it is necessary though, to have good command of English or otherwise one wouldn't really get all the undertones and the complexities of the humour and sarcasm.

I truly love it :-) And yet it is allowed to point out a few things, I guess :-)

but, but, but how can people NOT queue? How can they possibly see others and walk past them? If i lived in a country like that my eyebrows would be permanent alice bands. I would very soon become the mad lady wandering around shaking head and muttering not that i'm like that now, oh no

Spuddybean, I know what you mean.

Different folks, different strokes or when in Rome...that's how I deal with it.

There are other things people do or don't do in the UK, where I and/or others, ask the same question in disbelief, how can the not...???

Spuddy my dp tells me to put my foreign head on in his country. I struggle to control my outrage otherwise.

Spuddybean, each system has its own order, for example in Germany, you don't queue to get in and out the public transport, if they would do, then the trains and busses wouldn't make it on time, the way they do it, is till orderly in a sense and yet it doesn't cause delays in that sense...does that make sense???

Oh and the other thing i like is we are allowed to criticise things here. I find that comforting and only comes with real security. Like when in a good relationship. You aren't seen as horribly un-patriotic, it is seen as okay, you can still love a place and want to make it better.

I have friends in the US and they feel anything negative said is terribly disrespectful and in some way saying they 'hate' it or think EVERYTHING is wrong. I think it comes from insecurity. Like militant patriotism - methinks the lady doth protest too much IYSWIM.

ThePigOnTheWall, that is cute. Sounds like good advice

Spuddybean, I totally agree. especially with your analogy. It is also called democracy. Especially, if one has in mind to better things.

They say, change is ubiquitous. So, it'll happen anyway, why not be an active and thoughtful part of it?!

I live in France, have done for years, and I honestly don't think I could move back to the UK, despite there being lots of good points (food, countryside, history, culture).

My reasons are:

• there is a lot of snobbery - in both directions
• masses of pressure on people from the media (weight, parenting capabilities, the annual articles about GCSEs / A Levels getting easier)
• the way the media builds people up and then destroys them, reflected in reality TV
• a real lack of respect in general - for other people and for the environment (every time I come back to the UK I am at the little and plastic bags everywhere
• the snide articles about successful people, or people who are seen to get above their station (jealousy of the Middletons for example)
• the cynicism and negativity - the Olympics will be crap etc etc. No they won't, they'll be brilliant - there are bound to be major cock ups organising events of this scale - solve the problems but enjoy what goes right
• the celebration of mediocrity - people compete to see who is crappest at something. Howmany people will laugh and say how crap they are at maths, or spelling, or how they understand nothing about politics, or how rarely they do sport, etc etc etc. There is self deprecation of course, and it has its place, but even at school I remember people boasting about bad results, and people with good results keeping it quiet. Why?
• The shocking attitudes a noisy minority have to foreigners and 'benefits scroungers' and an absolute lack of empathy for people who need state help. Yes, there is a powerful-ish far right in France, but believe me the most shocking far right attitudes I have seen are in the UK tabloid press.
• The facebook statuses and Monday morning water cooler conversations about how much people have drunk over the weekend. Sorry, but getting legless isn't something to boast about. Pisshead pictures on Facebook really are only funny to the people who were there.

Every country has problems - I'm not saying France is perfect - it really really isn't. But there are some aspects of the UK which I find really difficult to handle.

Which is why I left, and why it is unlikely that I would return. There are of course other things which I miss (loads of things actually) - but weighing up the pros and cons for me, I've made my choice.

worldcitizen, i love the 'when in rome' suggestion, as when i was in Rome i stood for ages at a water fountain, waiting my turn, while everyone just pushed in front of me. After ages a man turned and said to me 'are you English?' (erm the blue tinged but blistering, turning Lobster red, skin may have also given it away). I said yes and he said something to everyone in Italian and they all laughed and stood back to let me have a drink. It was very funny. But what did they think i'd been bloody standing there for if not water?!

In Milan (a couple of weeks ago, at a water fountain) I had learnt my lesson and with it being 32 degress, and me heavily pregnant DP had to push in for me. But i still apologised about 17 times to everyone.

Oh, I missed something: the current government's continued attacks on benefits, the NHS, workers' rights, human rights, the elderly, education, etc etc etc. It is really frightening to watch it happen from the outside actually. Just looking at the accommodation which has been deemed acceptable for the Olympic cleaners for example, or those unemployed people bussed in to London for the Jubilee celebrations. It's really sad to watch people being treated in such a way and to see the givernment just not give a shit.

Your post I think talks more about the people you probably mixed with rather than a nation, and the media take on things which as we know we can not control the media.

As you say France is not perfect - I love France and the attitude they have to life. I also love England and the attitude a lot of my friends have to life.

If you don't like England theny ou could try Wales, Scotland or Northern ireland. or indeed any other country in the world

Spuddybean, I think this is funny, as I was never in Rome, but in Milan and Florence and many other places in Italy, and I am here further up north in Europe and even though my family are Mediterranean, but I was born here, I have vivid memories of my childhood and youth, how different I have perceived them in doing things.

The English system of queueing is wonderful. It is not only polite, but also very considerate, I'd say.

I've seen more litter, grafitti and dog shit in Paris then I ever have in London

as we know we can not control the media

No. But the competition for readers / viewers has never been stronger, so we can only assume that the media are doing their best to reflect the people and what they want. The great thing about british media is that there is something for everyone.

What is frightening is which shows / papers are the most popular.

The obsession with slebs is something I would point out too but it is going the same way in France, unfortunately.

We can not control the media?????

Nancy66 there's more to England and France than Paris and London. And I'd disagree on your point actually. There is nothing more gross than the tube at the end of the day - food packaging and newspapers everywhere. Why can't people not take their litter with them?

Dog shit, yes I'd agree - there is masses of dog shit in Paris, though they are improving, apparently.

Petite i like these things:

• the cynicism and negativity - the Olympics will be crap etc etc. No they won't, they'll be brilliant - there are bound to be major cock ups organising events of this scale - solve the problems but enjoy what goes right
• the celebration of mediocrity - people compete to see who is crappest at something. Howmany people will laugh and say how crap they are at maths, or spelling, or how they understand nothing about politics, or how rarely they do sport, etc etc etc. There is self deprecation of course, and it has its place, but even at school I remember people boasting about bad results, and people with good results keeping it quiet. Why?

I often see the cynicism as healthy criticism - not blind patriotism. (when in Paris i get irritated by the way the Parisiens are constantly telling me how much better Paris is from London. To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher 'like being a lady, if you have to tell someone you are, then you aren't).

I also like the being 'bad' thing. It isn't really saying it is better to be bad but just acknowledging it isn't the be all and end all. It also confirms the opposite. By mentioning it, it is highlighting it is unusual and actually the one staying quiet is unspokenly acknowledged as the successful one. I think it is reassuring and not 'in your face'. I do hate the every one winning mentality tho. I loke clear winners and losers.

Well if the Australian, British and US governments can't control him - not sure the general public can either

so we can only assume that the media are doing their best to reflect the people and what they want.

no the media is for profit only

PetiteRaleuse, I also think it is frightening to see which shows and papers are massively popular.

to me this also goes hand-in-hand with the constant put downs of people who are perceived to be "big-headed", wanting to be "something better" etc.
It is almost like a national trait, which while I am visiting, it is okay, but is also one of the things which would make me constantly annoyed, and I guess, that wouldn't be good, as I am the one who has decided to move to the UK.

Self-deprecating is at a level like I have never experienced in any other country or culture.