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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think England isn't such a great place to live

389 replies

Cloudminnow · 15/07/2012 18:52

Not just the weather, but so much more ...

parking fees everywhere and having to have change at hand (or very expensive pay as you leave - £8.80 to park for an afternoon shopping today!!)

hopeless and expensive public transport system

traffic jams all over the place

terrible customer service

obsession with celebrity culture and all it stands for

union flag and all it stands for

embarrassing monarchy (even having to have one at all)

desperate government

Olympics sponsored by Coke

Education system overly concerned with literacy, numeracy and data at the expense of a love of learning and creativity...

Can anyone sell England to me?!

OP posts:
worldcitizen · 17/07/2012 12:46

Yes, you can....so "news" articles such as the Daily Mail commenting on Robbie Williams wanting to have his child being born in London, must be so, so the child would be British, is of course rubbish.
Of course his child would be British as well, if born in the U.S.
As much as the child would be U.S. American due to his wife being a U.S.Citizen.

worldcitizen · 17/07/2012 12:48

SoupDragon, I think it goes without saying, that by that NOT ALL(and each and everyone) are meant, right?!

ZZZenAgain · 17/07/2012 13:20

In Robbie William's case probably but it can be a consideration for some people who have a British passport but were born overseas. Let's say a British mum and dad give birth to a dc in the US, that dc will be able to get a British passport (probably as well as an American one). However if that dc grows up and gives birth outside the UK, the baby will not automatically be entitled to a British passport unless the other parent is British and born in the UK. Otherwise you have to apply and it has a bit to do with length of time the British parent has spent in the UK and so on.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 17/07/2012 13:30

I sort of agree with the OP

((prepares to be flamed))

I live in Scotland, and I'm really glad I don't live in England. Everytime I watch the news there is some new shit the Westminster government is imposing on england (and wales sometimes); dismantling the NHS, academy schools, paying separately for water, loads of difference train companies who charge a fortune....

worldcitizen · 17/07/2012 13:48

ZZZ, yes i see that. the same would be true for the U.S. American citizenship law.

ken0eddie0kennedy · 17/07/2012 13:51

I would hate to live in another country - I just know I would. So, for all its faults, it's the UK for me forever & I'm very happy with that.

ken0eddie0kennedy · 17/07/2012 13:53

And I don't moan about the UK either.

Primafacie · 17/07/2012 14:50

I was born and raised abroad, came to live in the UK years ago and gained citizenship.

This country is home to me. It's where my children were born, where I live and work, and I would not contemplate emigrating (except when I retire, where I shall naturally buy a country pile in Normandy :o)

Yes the UK is a great place to live. I love the BBC, I love that the art scene is so vibrant, that the press is so strong, that the judiciary is independent. For all its faults, I love public transport in London.

But that doesn't mean we should stop ourselves from criticising things that don't work. And the retort of "if you are not happy, why don't you just move elsewhere", while funny when said in jest, actually makes me rather uncomfortable: not everyone can move elsewhere, and we, as a society, should strive to make this place as good, enjoyable and inclusive as it can be, for the largest number of people. This means criticism is necessary from time to time to make things change.

In random order, some of the things that grate me about living here are:

The celebrity obsession is much stronger in England than where I grew up (Canada). I read recently that when little girls are asked what they want to be when they grow up, the no. 1 "career choice" is footballer's wife. This makes me want to weep. You wouldn't hear a single little girl in Canada say they want to be a ice hockey player's wife!

The NHS is not the holy grail that many Brits like to believe - many countries have better state-provided health care provision, including France.

Poor socio-economic mobility in Britain, and the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the elite, is alarming and sobering. The class system (and, by extension, the monarchy) is a disgrace. Why do we even tolerate it? Why do we think it's okay that a posh boys' clique runs the country?

The weather is shit.

The school admissions system is insane - catchment voids anyone?

The state childcare provision is appalling or non-existent - where I used to live in Canada, everyone is entitled to nearly free (less than £5/day) childcare.

Sexism is rife. As a woman, it is much more difficult to get through the glass ceiling here than in some other countries. None of my Canadian friends who have children have given up their professional careers; by contrast, none of my British friends have gone on to work full time after having kids.

Don't get me started on Christmas! Why are there no decent Christmas trees in this country? Anyone who thinks UK has the best Christmas needs to book a flight to Montreal pronto!

It's impossible to buy a decent baguette.

English dentists are scary. I used to LOVE going to the dentist.

Oh, and did I mention the weather is shite? :)

OP, THANK YOU for starting this thread and allowing me to rant! I feel years of silent moaning have now lifted off my chest :o

yellowraincoat · 17/07/2012 14:54

Dentists is true. When I went to a dentist in Saudi Arabia (the dentist was from South America I think and the dental nurse from the Philippines) they were shocked by the state of my teeth (outwardly ok looking but had a fucked up veneer done in the UK).

"What do you expect," said the nurse. "She's British."

Nancy66 · 17/07/2012 14:57

It's not like people don't know the weather is shit though - if you're a sun worshipper then don't come to live in the UK.

I hate being hot and sweaty, so I'd never live in the Middle East.

Nobody can do anything about the weather - things like NHS, education, housing, pay can be improved. The weather is something we're stuck with.

....and i don't even think the weather is that bad

Primafacie · 17/07/2012 15:10

To be fair Nancy, this has been the rainiest year on record so far - I think a little whinge about the weather is not entirely out of order (even though, as you rightly pointed out, there's nothing we can do about it)!

There is a world of difference between being a sun worshipper (which I am not) and having to wear a winter coat in June (which I have).

worldcitizen · 17/07/2012 15:10

Primafacie thank you for your very insightful post.

Especially this part, I couldn't agree more on:

But that doesn't mean we should stop ourselves from criticising things that don't work. And the retort of "if you are not happy, why don't you just move elsewhere", while funny when said in jest, actually makes me rather uncomfortable: not everyone can move elsewhere, and we, as a society, should strive to make this place as good, enjoyable and inclusive as it can be, for the largest number of people. This means criticism is necessary from time to time to make things change.

This..."why don't you just move elsewhere"...,would also be a very typical response of a certain segment of society of my country and some others....says a lot about a person, even though the person itself might not notice...

Crinkle77 · 17/07/2012 16:12

SoulSource you pretty much summed up a lot of what I wanted to say

SoleSource · 17/07/2012 16:21

Yes but Dave sexy shorts, is MINE Grin

grimbletart · 17/07/2012 16:34

Can anyone sell England to me?! asks the OP.

Seen more than one thread like this. I now think, why bother 'selling' to someone who clearly isn't interested in buying?

nocluenoclueatall · 17/07/2012 16:34

OP YANBU. It's a shitehole.

The government is a bad joke (sorry to offend any of our upper class readers, but in my mind if you get to rule the country just by virtue of having a pair of testicles and going to bloody Eton, we've kissed social mobility goodbye), the streets are dirty, the schools drive our children insane, the housing stock is overpriced rubbish, the NHS is dreadful, public transport is infuriating...

I didn't notice any of this until I left and moved elsewhere. For three years I lived in a country which was clean, efficiently run and very very pretty.

I was bored out of my mind. Only the BBC kept me sane.

By the way to other posters that have mentioned the BBC... FWIW, you can get the BBC all over Europe and the US too, you just don't have to pay a licence fee for it.

kuros · 17/07/2012 16:42

Primafacie´s thread above is spot on.

England is a very difficult place to live for women imo.

People often speak of "Scandanavia" in awe but such a high standard of living is far more widespread than people realise. And it comes from paying taxes I´m afraid: taxes in leads to increased service provision out.

I really wish English women knew just how easier life is in many other countries.. where cheap or free childcare is the norm, just like inexpensive wraparound after school and holiday clubs, all tax deductable. Not to mention "Grannies" who can even care for sick children in your own home if necessary!

Nobody takes me seriously when I say many women in England can´t afford to continue to work due to childcare costs. I´m sure they really just do not believe it´s possible.

I think a lot of womens problems stem from childcare costs in the UK.

worldcitizen · 17/07/2012 16:56

I agree, I think that PetiteRaleuse and Primafacie have talked a lot of sense here, without flaming the UK, Britishness or the English.

I'd say, that attitude is vital in (government)decision-making commitees, in terms of finding true solutions to current state of affairs and in staying on top of things...or otherwise....others will pass you with flying colours...and then everyone is wondering how that could have happened Shock Shock Shock, mmmhhh

ZZZenAgain · 17/07/2012 18:04

people LOVE to go to the dentist. Really? I hate going to the dentist, primafacie, in any country at all, really hate it.

Primafacie · 17/07/2012 18:29

Zzen, my old dentist was so cool! He always had great music playing (listening to I Want to Break Free while on the chair will live in my memory forever) and he was really friendly and funny. He was the kind of guy I could go to the pub with.

I've been to a couple of places in London and it was like stepping back in the 70s, the equipment was so old, the lighting was really blunt, everything was noisy and scary.

50shadesofslapntickle · 17/07/2012 21:47

Hmm... Canada sounds like a great place - why did you leave primafacie?!

busyboysmum · 17/07/2012 21:58

I know the weather is rubbish but at least we don't have hurricanes, earthquakes, twisters, tsunamis, extreme heat, extreme cold, extreme darkness... any of those would be so much worse.

CaliforniaLeaving · 17/07/2012 23:14

Dentists is true. When I went to a dentist in Saudi Arabia (the dentist was from South America I think and the dental nurse from the Philippines) they were shocked by the state of my teeth (outwardly ok looking but had a fucked up veneer done in the UK)

"What do you expect," said the nurse. "She's British."

You know that stereo type really pisses me off. Our US dentist likes Dh's teeth and says he wishes his were as nice and healthy, they also commented on how nice and straight mine and the kids were and wanted to know if I had had any straightening done, and I haven't. Dh's little sis had to have work done and her dentist was amazed her fillings had lasted so long (about 30 years) and said they were the best he'd ever seen then he asked where they'd been done Grin
We had a lovely gentle dentist in UK and we have a lovely one here in the US.
Also I'm a nurse and have seen/met/treated more people with no teeth, missing teeth, and black teeth, than I even encountered in the UK.
All this moaning and running down the country is a real UK trait. In Aus they call us Whinging Poms for a reason. too much daily fail reading going on and people who don't know how wonderful their own country is.
They need to start brainwashing from an early age like they do in the US, from preschool onwards all the way though high school, each morning they stand, put their hand on their heart, face the flag and recite the pledge of allegiance, and for younger kids it's followed by a few patriotic songs, like "This is my land" They are taught there is no place better on earth and everyone wishes they lived here and were an American, and bugger me if they don't all believe it too. Amazing!

yellowraincoat · 17/07/2012 23:19

California , my teeth were fucked up by a series of dentists. I can't go into the tale here without squirming and I'm about to go to bed, but basically, I've been to about 4 dentists in the UK all who thought there was nothing wrong with my teeth when they were full of huge holes and rot. Serious negligence going on there.

You're talking more about how good your teeth are: my dentist was talking about how shit the dentists were in Britain. I don't think there's a stereotype that British dentists are shit, but rather that British teeth are shit, which isn't what they were saying.

I'd rather we whinged a bit than were brainwashed like the yanks to be honest. The US has tons of problems and they can't even see it.

IsSamNormansDad · 18/07/2012 01:52

I'm Scottish, born & bred, but I love England simply for producing the beautiful Benedict Cumberbatch (would link to picture, but I'm on my phone).
Hope no-one is offended by my attempt to lighten the thread Smile

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