To think England isn't such a great place to live

[Cloudminnow]

Not just the weather, but so much more ...

parking fees everywhere and having to have change at hand (or very expensive pay as you leave - £8.80 to park for an afternoon shopping today!!)

hopeless and expensive public transport system

traffic jams all over the place

terrible customer service

obsession with celebrity culture and all it stands for

union flag and all it stands for

embarrassing monarchy (even having to have one at all)

desperate government

Olympics sponsored by Coke

Education system overly concerned with literacy, numeracy and data at the expense of a love of learning and creativity...

Can anyone sell England to me?!

I spent an hour in a Malaysian McDonalds waiting for breakfast. I was standing like a dick behind other people desperately trying to be in or make a queue.

I'm so glad this thread has turned into the interesting debate that this topic deserves....

Good point about the footpaths, Chandon, I was at the lack of public footpaths in Ireland. Terrible. Switzerland's good for footpaths, too.

There are some dreadful things about the UK, and some good. I would be prepared to go and live in France; not that I think it has more good points and less bad than the UK, but I think that its "pluses" might suit me personally better than the British ones.

I lived in Italy for some years though, and that is a country I would find it impossible to actually lead a functioning life in. The lack of a decent government and infrastructure is pretty crippling...

But for those who got on their high horses about what a free and democratic country the UK is, did you know that the country with the highest rate of cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights is Italy? And that the second highest is...that's right, the UK.

DP and I will probably be emigrating for his work and I am :( . The more i research other countries the more sad i get.

I am not sure i'll cope without self depricating and sarcasm. Also healthcare and education concerns me massively.

Yes, we aren't perfect but compared to everywhere else we have been/seen, we are pretty good. I concede the weather is shite tho.

DP and i have Canadian visas and will probably live there for a bit, but I will miss here so much.

As for the cost - i find other places much more expensive (am i going to the wrong places?).

I think we just take things for granted. DS's South African friend loves UK, he says that we don't know how lucky we are.

Things I hate:

- basins with one tap for cold, one for hot, making hadnwashing tricky. Why why why?

I would imagine that's from the days when people would put a little bit of cold and a bit of hot in the sink and wash their hands in the basin rather than in running water. Probably saves water i would imagine as well.

- very expensive, and not brilliant, public transport

That's interesting because a lot of posters have mentioned how good it is compared to other countries.

-big divide between rich and poor (benefits are so low! Who can actually LIVE on benefits or state pension?

Really? I thought we were generous with the benefits here? Do other countries actually give more? I know nothing about pensions.

- horrid chocolate (Cadbury's), full of dubious vegetable fat that is NOT cocoa butter

How dare you slate cadburys . . . Ooh hit a nerve there, cadburys is delicious and miles better then foreign chocolate which is mank. Don't make me hunt you down

- lack of self belief (Olympics will be a shamble, we will never win Wimbledon, we are crap at football etc etc.), lack of pride

I agree, with are very self deprecating. Or rather the media is. Drives me crazy!

- complaining about foreigners

Well that depends where you live and who you mix with. No one i know in London would do that. Small town minds might do.

But for those who got on their high horses about what a free and democratic country the UK is, did you know that the country with the highest rate of cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights is Italy? And that the second highest is...that's right, the UK

That doesn't mean the UK doesn't pay attention to peoples human rights. . . it could mean that the UK is a country where people choose to and are able to fight for their human rights more then other countries.

Saudi Arabia for eg. I am sure there are plenty of human rights violations there, particularly against women but they would be much less likely to have the opportunity to actually do anything about it. It just means we are not repressed and fight for what we believe to be right.

That's a bad thing how?

PooPoo - no, Londoners just complain about small-towners...

I've never heard that in real life and I've spent most of my life in London. Chip, shoulder, paranoia, perhaps? Londoners are too busy being fabulous anyway . . .

I think that its easy to say 'well, its a lot better here than anywhere else'. TBH I've lived in Spain, and their NHS was at least as good as ours IMO, public transport probably on a par, actually the only thing that I would say was worse was the weather (!) and the fact that my family all live in the UK :)

Yes the beauracracy can be a bit daft, but officials tend more often than not just to say 'oh sod it, this is stupid' (in Spanish, obviously!), ignore the rules, and use their common sense.

Now I live in Wales, and I'm much happier here than I would be in England - it seems to me that there is less inequality (admittedly mainly because there are fewer rich people), people have a more community minded attitude, generally I would say that life is better.

I love the English landscape, the national character, and lots of other things about it, but I think that 30 years of right wing government (and I include Tony Blair's administration in that) has damaged a lot of things about the country possibly irreparably.

PooPoo, of course the UK has better human rights than somewhere like Saudi Arabia, and it is still very much the case that its quite easy for a lot of people (mostly the white middle class ones) to say 'its fine if you're not someone who causes trouble', but it certainly isn't perfect in any way.

I'd rather make comparisons myself with other northern European countries, to see how we can improve, than say 'oh we're better than some random dictatorship'

Australia here

Weather - wet, very wet at mo. But still a hosepipe ban. In summer it gets up to 40.

Parking in the city upto $10 an hour.

Hopeless and expensive public transport system

traffic jams all over the place

terrible customer service

obsession with celebrity culture and all it stands for

desperate government

Sport sponsored by alcohol

Education system not overly concerned with literacy, numeracy and data at the expense of a love of learning and creativity...

"I am not sure i'll cope without self depricating and sarcasm. Also healthcare and education concerns me massively."

Spuddybean - you could go to Spain or Germany, both are good at sarcasm, healthcare and education IME.

I love it here, I am just mirroring your complaints. They are anywhere.

I agree, OP. That's why I'm leaving the country next week.

Have lived all over the world (a couple of places in Asia, New Zealand, Australia, and parts of Europe) and there are plenty of better places to live. I have come back here for work and now I think it's good for the odd holiday but no good for a decent lifestyle.

I do love the UK (especiallly Scotland) but the rising prices and the government cuts are so depressing. I secretly love the weather though!

PooPooInMyToes, I love London, one of my favourite cities in the world, but to say that Londoners wouldn't complain about foreigners...well, I have other experiences. I know people from Hackney, Enfield, entire crowds who are Tottenham fans etc......THEY ARE LONDONERS....and the do complain massively about foreigners.

Takver. The point i was making and which still stands despite your response, is that us having more cases of human rights going to court then any other country apart from Italy isn't necessarily a bad thing. It doesn't mean human rights violations don't happen in these other countries, but perhaps that we are as a nation more willing to fight for them.

World. Depends who you mix with i suppose. Never found football fans to be the most open minded bunch personally.

I know this sounds trite but I don't think I could live in a country that doesn't queue. The injustice, outrage and stress would send me to an early grave!! My dp laughs his head off when we go to his country and I'm all outraged at the pushing and shoving. It drives me demented!! I would have high blood pressure and possibly murder someone within a week!!

To put a more serious spin on it, I think the queue is a testament to the British sense of fair play. Which I very much like.

PooPoo - it was a joke as you'd said we Londoners don't complain about foreigners and then complained about small town minds... Never mind...

Takver, you wrote:

I'd rather make comparisons myself with other northern European countries, to see how we can improve, than say 'oh we're better than some random dictatorship'

I totally agree with you. You are so spot on. The same about the so-called free healthcare, which isn't, as I mentioned before, it is socialised (tax-funded), paid by the people for the people, so it would make more sense to compare to other Western (Northern) European countries, who have a very similar system and yet apply it quite differently.

Why is it okay in the UK to wait for an operation, whereas in other countries such as Germany, Sweden, Norway that is unheard of.

Public transport is great in the UK, but how come it is way more efficient and reliable in Germany? And also cheaper?

I think, you want it to be better. It is absolutely your right to moan and complain, but also try and look for solutions at the same time. And if looking for excellence, go and compare yourself with the best and then apply it to the UK keeping in mind the cultural and national attitudes :-)

exactly, and yet they are Londoners....and it's not football fans who are the problem. My English friends are the sort of people who are Oxbridge, Bristol, St. Andrews and a certain type as well...they are not the problem, however many others are and make foreigners very uncomfortable and sometimes not feeling safe as well. Not only in London, also Birmingham and Manchester comes to mind right away, and yet on paper those cities are very mixed and open-minded.

Yes, and that is also England for you. i am sorry, maybe not so noticeable for English people.

I agree about queuing (hello again thepig). I get very distressed when people don't queue. It isn't about the actual waiting it is that by just walking to the front you are saying you are more deserving of quicker service than someone else. And i just find that so fundamentally wrong.

I have stood for ages in Italy as people just barge past me and get served. How can queuing not be automatic? for me it's like breathing.

Takver but sadly i don't speak Spanish or German, so the sarcasm would be wasted on me :(

State education is in the doldrums in most of the Western world. It is old and out of date everywhere and newer economies are quickly overtaking the creaky old systems.

How can queuing not be automatic? for me it's like breathing.

Funny, that could be a joke made about the Germans, who supposedly are so much into order, so much that they must be living and breathing it, and even so far that they are born with that trait, just happens automatically :-9