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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that women are stupid?

534 replies

lovebunny · 06/07/2012 05:57

elsewhere, there is a complaint about being unsupported when breastfeeding. this is a feminist issue - and the fault lies fairly and squarely at the feet of women.

i am astounded that after the battles fought in the seventies and eighties, women have allowed such regression.

look how stupid women are today. they have their bodies surgically adapted to men's fantasies - breasts enlarged, labia trimmed - they bleach their hair, tattoo their eyeliner and lipstick and have themselves spray-painted. they remove their pubic hair so they look like children for their (multiple) partners. if you read about it in a book on social anthropology you'd be horrified at the 'oppression' of women. but women think they are choosing this!

then they say 'oh, its not fair, no-one supports me when i'm breastfeeding'. too damn right they don't. because you and your compatriots have allowed everyone to see you as barbie dolls to use and abuse. they don't want to see you being women, being grown up, feeding your babies, that spoils the fantasy. you created this; live with it.

when you've finished screaming at me about your 'rights' to have your mons pubis decorated with fake jewels and to have your isabella piercing, organise yourselves.

wash your faces, let the fake tan fade, cut off your dyed hair and let it grow back naturally, so your babies can recognise the human being their genetic memory was expecting to find here. stay free from chemicals that mask your natural odours, so your babies can recognise you by smell. if people are pressurising you to 'go back to work' say, 'certainly. when this baby chooses to stop breastfeeding'. that gives you four to five years at home, maybe longer, when you are doing something no-one else can - being your babies' mothers.

the 'male' has been accepted as the 'norm' in society - so some early feminists wanted to be like men - some of that lingers. but feminists who believe in the strength and value of the female, have retreated into hiding. wake up! speak up! these are your daughters, sisters, aunts, even your mothers tarting themselves up and whoring themselves out to all and sundry trying to be 'wives and girlfriends'! they're too stupid to realise they've been conned!

educate your daughters. make them aware of political and societal manipulation. make women free - free from pressure to look a certain way, behave a certain way. free, in fact, to be women. free to want to eat without guilt, work, reproduce, raise children, form partnerships, find contentment and find peace of mind.

don't leave this to someone else. if strong women don't act to make the world a better place for women, no-one will. and in twenty years' time, i'll be reading 'oh, society doesn't support breast-feeding mothers'. again.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 06/07/2012 10:06

Ok, let's have the 'pressure from men to look good' chat.

Of course there is pressure, much of it v sexist, and those of us with daughters or nieces are rightly concerned.

But. It isn't that simple, is it?

Take the whole 'skinny model' debate. Where are the skinniest models? They are on catwalks and in specialist fashion mags, where only gay men and other women will see them.

Do men/ husbands/ your male colleagues etc put you under pressure to update your wardrobe each season, to remain current? Unlikely.

Do you in fact listen mainly to the views of other women on this, and plan outfits based not upon pleasing men but upon feeling good yourself and getting admiring looks and compliments from other women? Getting warmer.

I'm not going to dismiss patriarchy, or lads mags (boke), or music videos, or Hollyoaks, or all the myriad pressures we face to look 'hot'.

But it isn't just about men v. women. And we all have choice - most women out there are not glammed up are they, they're just in comfortable or smart clothes, getting on with the demands of their day.

BelieveInPink · 06/07/2012 10:07

I'm sorry, I'm on page 2 and promise to read the whole thread, and apologies if this has already been said but "labia trimmed"?

What the actual eff?

hairylemon · 06/07/2012 10:08

I can stay at home for 4-5 years? What do I do about paying the mortgage? Do you think they may accept a copy of your op every month instead of the
money?

I'll ring then now and ask......

geegee888 · 06/07/2012 10:09

The OP is very critical of certain issues, and while I don't agree with it all, theres something in the general subject matter that is along the right lines. I do notice a difference here in UK women and my Dutch friends from school and uni - I'm not Dutch, but partly grew up there. And I notice it more as I get older. British women can be very timid, particularly in criticising men. My Dutch friends all happily go off all over the world on their own on holiday, no-one finds it unusual. Their views are liberated, but their behaviour is more conservative. They don't do this running around after men thing, and the men aren't cossetted when they behave badly.

HipHopOpotomus · 06/07/2012 10:10

catgirl you're on fire today :)

hairylemon · 06/07/2012 10:10

Trimmed labia has just made me think about a nice bacon butty, trimmed of fat natch. Mmmmmmm

HoneyDragonWearingLederhosen · 06/07/2012 10:10

But ScottishMummy by enjoying it surely that means you hate your children and you hate women and that you are stupid?

(and you may develop an irrational hatred of people who over use the word and)

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 06/07/2012 10:11

We are rightly shocked when we hear about female genital mutilation in other countries, but some people seem to be ready to accept changing the appearance of their genitals through surgery here in the west under a cosmetic surgery label.
This seems very worrying to me.

Tangointhenight · 06/07/2012 10:11

hairylemon don't be so stupid , you don't need a mortgage because you should live in a mud hut!! :o

hairylemon · 06/07/2012 10:12

I don't need my labia trimmed. They are that dangly the pavement acts as a pumice stone on them :(

catgirl1976 · 06/07/2012 10:13

Why thank you Hipp Grin Blush

lastnerve · 06/07/2012 10:13

But!! we live in a patriarchal society, where men are still largely in charge until that dynamic shifts very little will change.

However I'm with on people who choose not to breastfeed 'becoz it meks ya saggy' erm Hmm pregnancy affects your breasts give yourself a good wobble.

WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 10:14

I'm guessing the OP was forward planning when she started this thread.

She probably thought, "Oooh I know, I'll start a thread to get them all worked up so I can have a good read when I get home from work...that's my Friday night sorted" Wink

I wonder if we can get the thread to 1000 posts before she gets home so she can really wet her knickers Grin

scottishmummy · 06/07/2012 10:14

no,its obnoxious,in a women no your place way
and clearly no one adheres to this ideology and op then calls them to whores
the impotency of the word isnt lost on me

Chandon · 06/07/2012 10:15

Morriszap, that is so true!!!

OatyBeatie · 06/07/2012 10:16

lol at catgirl multitasking the madonna and whore roles. Grin

TheRealMrsHannigan · 06/07/2012 10:17

OP you are spouting quite a lot of drivel in that rant there, well done, quite an achievement. Hmm

Feminism is about CHOICE. Just because some women are making choices about their appearance and lifestyles that you clearly do not approve of, does not make those choices any less valid.

Latara · 06/07/2012 10:18

I was just going to paint my nails a pretty colour, Rimmel 'Grape Sorbet' aka 'yet another shade of pink....'

Because it looks nice & i like pink & i'm oppressed from wearing nail varnish at work but now i've got 4 days off...

I can still fight the patriarchy (sp?) with pink nails.

Not that i need to do any patriarchy fighting right now... my Dad's coming round later & i just know if i leave the washing up HE will kindly do it - lovely Dad :)

WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 10:19

Latara can you pimp your Dad out so he comes and does mine too? Grin

Flatbread · 06/07/2012 10:20

Catgirl Grin

Most of the women whom I know, think women who wear the burka even if they say it is 'willing' are not really doing it out of free choice. Who in their right mind will want to cover themselves head to foot with a heavy cumbersome material?

Similarly, those of us who say we put make-up, wax etc. 'willingly' are probably not doing it out of free choice either. Why would we want to cake our face with stuff, put ourselves through pain to get waxed? I don't put makeup, but do put highlights in my hair and wax. I am not going to get righteous about it, I know that alone in a desert island, highlights or waxing would have no place in my life. It is following social norms, no matter how much I like to think I am free.

And women perpetuate the patriarchal structure as much as men. If we were not willing participants in a structure that oppresses us, it would have crumbled a while ago.

hairylemon · 06/07/2012 10:20

Gah you're right Tango, doesnt matter anyway, the mortgage company said unfortunately at this time they are unable to accept the contents of a post on Mumsnet as payment for a dwelling when we clearly agreed back in 2003 that we would make a regular payments via direct debit.

bastards, dont they know they are oppressing me by making me go out to work and earn my own living rather than rely on DP to support us? Oh hang on....

Flobbadobs · 06/07/2012 10:21

Well I must be stupid. I thought that feminism was about having the choice to be who I want to be and do what I want to do. If that is being an earth mother type, a painted whore or a high flying business women that is my choice.
I choose to stay at home, work from home part time and look after our children. I also choose to put make up on occasionally, dye my hair and defuzz when I get round to it. I choose to look good(ish) for my husband, as he does for me. I'm also in the middle of choosing a tattoo, that one's definitly for me!!

Dahlen · 06/07/2012 10:24

I think a feminist POV would be to label patriarchy at fault for creating such incredible yet subtle pressure to conform rather than labelling women stupid for conforming in the face of such pressure.

Women are not stupid. They live in what is a much more equal world, but still very much a man's world nonetheless. Every woman has to negotiate her way through it. Depending on numerous factors such as geography, lifestyle, peers, occupation etc., the pressure on her to conform to the socially idealised form of beauty or 'good grooming' varies, so that some women will follow it more than others.

The level of a woman's conformity isn't necessarily a reflection of her level of emancipation. That there is still such overwhelming conformity is certainly a topic for feminist analysis, but it hardly makes a woman stupid. It is a normal part of our culture, and while it's always worth asking why our culture requires so much more grooming on the part of women than it does for men, right now that's the way it is and you can't blame women for adopting a culturally normal practice of wearing makeup any more than you can for anyone following the cultural norm of not wandering round tesco naked.

hairylemon · 06/07/2012 10:24

Erm, worra wearing knickers is oppressive, it indicates that we have something in them that needs to be nested delicately in a hammock of cotton gusset.

Im a true feminist, I free my Mingeshire Terrier from its cotton prison.

WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 10:26

Erm, worra wearing knickers is oppressive, it indicates that we have something in them that needs to be nested delicately in a hammock of cotton gusset.

Yeah but unless the OP's wearing ankle socks, what else is she going to tuck her pubes into?

Grin