That society is unfair about breastfeeding and mums

[pommedechocolat]

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't...

I would define myself as m/c and live in a nice area in the south by the way (although both dh and myself come from w/c parents with the traditional suspicion of bf in all forms for their generation).

With dd1 bf 'failed' and she was ff from 8 weeks. I felt that I was looked down upon for my method of feeding at various baby groups, I also felt very guilty about the choices I'd made as time went on. With dd2 I am still ebf at 18 weeks despite the silent reflux and cmpi she's currently being diagnosed with and the resulting boob phobia we've gone through.

I feel that I am part of the 'club' I'd felt excluded from by ff (and everyone nods approvingly when you say you're bf still) but at the same time viewed as slightly 'icky' when I feed in public (especially as standing up and odd positions etc with the boob phobia). It's strange with parents and ils too as I am the first in either family to even really try bf.

It seems that as women we are expected to lay down everything for our children to give them the best start but to not do it in front of anyone (or talk about the downsides such as leaking, engorgement etc at all).

I'm not starting a ff vs bf thread here just frustrated by societies attitudes to me as a woman on yet another frigging issue as I make my way through life!

When I breastfed (quite a few years ago now!) I never encountered any 'disapproval' and actually received much kindness from strangers (eg offering to go up to the buffet car to get me a drink when I was on a long train journey).

I have never bottle fed, so I cannot compare the two, but when I see baby's bottlefed in public I certainly don't 'disapprove'.

If a baby is obviously loved and cared for, then it is all good, in my opinion.

I agree it depends where you are. I also found a lot of competitiveness about bfing, and I know I was used as a stick to beat other mothers with as I'd not been able to get DS to latch at first and expressed for a couple of weeks "so while it was a bottle, it had her milk in it and she didn't just give up" - I felt guilty hearing my story repeated to struggling mothers - as if they were being told they just hadn't tried hard enough.

However, once you step away from the 'mummy bubble' you do get looks and overhear comments by others who aren't supportive of breast feeding, and 'feeding rooms' and specific feeding friendly places don't really help in the long term as it's still hiding breast feeding away - before I had DS I think I'd seen woman breast feeding 'out and about' (rather than friends/family in their own home) less than a dozen times. Some might have been so discreet that I didn't notice, but that doesn't help with the fear when you're about to try public breastfeeding for the first time.

In large parts of the country it's not the norm to see woman breast feeding, it's hard if you live in those areas to hear "oh, it's all in your head, noone cares if you bf or ff" because people do judge.

I agree with you, OP. As someone who ended up FF from 8 weeks as well, it is viewed as a substandard choice but breastfeeding was a total nightmare for me and I could never have done it in public.

BF is encouraged so much but ultimately a lot of social situations make it awkward. Personally, I can think of a number of social situations I've been in since DS was born where it would have been very awkward to BF e.g. meeting DH's long-lost relatives and sitting next to an elderly male relative I'd never met before in a restaurant that was distinctly not child-friendly, being in the immigration queue off a flight from the US, going house-hunting with a male agent in our car for a whole day etc. On those occasions I was glad I had just a bottle (obviously if you had a bottle of EBF, that would work too but pumping - and bf-ing generally - never worked for me).

It depends on the person though. Some women are very relaxed about BF in public but I never was. I always felt it was an intensely private thing between me and DS and couldn't manage it in front of my own mother, let alone strangers. Maybe that's why it never worked out for me? Who knows? There is definitely a double-standard anyway where society wants women to BF but preferably on their own time and in their own home.

Agree with DontmindifIdo. If this had been posted in the Breast and Bottle feeding forum, there would have been many more people agreeing with the OP. It's easy to forget the constant feeling of being judged when you're not in that baby-place any more.

I'm just about to give birth to #2 and definitely don't give a shit what anyone thinks any more, but am still often surprised how many people - friends, family, total strangers - are prepared to dish out unwanted advice or opinions to pregnant/new mums.

Yesterday the nice receptionist at my client's office, who has no kids, told me that I 'had to get the baby into a routine' ! I was very polite but baffled why on earth she would care?!

Guess the whole topic of how we look after our babies is quite emotive - Not just for parents, but also for people who don't themselves have a baby to look after.

i'll be honest, i FF DD1 due to medical condition, DD2 is EBF, no-one has ever said anything to me about either (apart from Mil lol), certainly never a stranger in public, and i'm not discreet at all, not through lack of trying, i'm a 34j so not much is hidden by DD's head but i digress.

Feed your baby however you like as long as you feed it, though i will admit to being a little at strict routines

I doubt the majority of people really care whether you bf/ff - I'd probably 'nod approvingly' whatever someone told me they were doing (while wondering why I was supposed to care). The occasional person petty enough to 'look down' on you for your choice really not worth your attention, who wants to be in their ridiculous little 'club' anyway?

I admit I wouldn't particularly want to have a conversation about someone's breasts (or any other body parts) being 'engorged and leaking', but if you just get on with breastfeeding I'm unlikely to care or likely even notice.

I really dont think people care that much tbh yes breast is best but honestly in 4 years time when your baby is at school nobody is going to point out the BF via ff children, feeding a child milk lasts such a short time that it isnt as important as some people make out, be proud your child isnt starving it really is just milk ,

Perhaps caring for and being responsible for a new baby is such a terrifying ordeal (though naturally also wonderful and fulfilling etc too) that you are anxious and v vulnerable to any suggestions or criticisms from those who appear or think they know better.

It's weird that the BF /FF debate is so fraught. I was a hopeless BF and did both for a while then just FF but felt a failure because of it, but reallly why that is I'm not sure.

Maybe there are some sort of nurturing hormones surging round your system when you have a new baby which make you much more emotional about things.

The fact that you don't see BF, or much FF come to that, in real life makes it all a bit more weird and wonderful rather than natural........ can't remember the last time I saw someone breast feeding on tv.

It is because there are so many judgey people in the world.

You may be lucky and not meet them or be in an area where you are conforming with that areas 'norms'.

There is also a lot of demonising women who had to switch to ff because they couldn't get past problems. I think it easier and cheaper than providing the support needed. Some of it ignorance like the why can't bf mother time feed so they are in their house or just give a bottle.

IME there can be a lot of pressure to do what others are doing because they think you doing the same somehow validates their decisions.

BF,FF mixed feeding someone will have and probably give an unasked opinion then it's weaning age, then it tantrums, dummies, co-sleeping, cots to bed times or toilet training or discipline then its reading bands and school work, exam results and career choices.

OP see if you can find some bf support if you are struggling and just try and ignore everyone else.

I doubt the majority of people really care whether you bf/ff - I'd probably 'nod approvingly' whatever someone told me they were doing (while wondering why I was supposed to care). The occasional person petty enough to 'look down' on you for your choice really not worth your attention, who wants to be in their ridiculous little 'club' anyway?

I agree, its only the BF activists who seem to get that het up (on here and in RL) and IMO its more a sign of their own insecurities than anything else.

I do know some mums who are passionate BF and that is fantatsic but i always wonder what they are going to get het up about when their children dont BF anymore, as i said it lasts such a short time and they will move on

I know what you mean I breastfed as a teen mum which is unthinkable to most people .

everyone assumed I FF which actually irritated me tbh. and I did get 'icky' looks.

I agree that there are some bf activists you do get het up.

There is also a large section of society that really doesn't agree with bf or understand it. IME they don't usually make comments to you unless they are family but make you feel uncomfortable with looks, loud complaints comments to others.

Mind you bf can make you sensitive and almost look for trouble.

I bf all three of mine but I was in a cafe one day watching for my eldest two coming back with their dad while dealing with my youngest. So I was looking in the direction they were coming as I'd have to get youngest moving- I didn't register table with grandparents and young mother who it turned out was bf. My looking in that direction was getting grandparents het up as they were assuming I was judging their DD for bf. Only reason I knew was I clocked a very aggressive grandfather almost getting up to have words with me being stopped and then some choice comments not said to us but as we past. I choice to ignore and deal with my family than enlighten them to my indifference to their DD actions and my pro bf opinions.

I just think it is a boob it has milk in it feeds a baby i suppose it isnt that simple for some people but i don't think people judge about feeding as much as some think

i think the biggest mistake people make is believing anyone gives a fuck

self obsessed, navel-gazing bores both formula feed and breastfeed

and yes, i'll own up to judging formula feeding on a superficial level from time to time but i really don't give it more than .0004 of a second's thought. i know some of my friends think my choice to have c-sections, just because i preferred to, is barmy and judge me a bit. but i don't care on jot.

Add message | Report | Message poster Whatmeworry Fri 06-Jul-12 10:13:24
I doubt the majority of people really care whether you bf/ff - I'd probably 'nod approvingly' whatever someone told me they were doing (while wondering why I was supposed to care). The occasional person petty enough to 'look down' on you for your choice really not worth your attention, who wants to be in their ridiculous little 'club' anyway?

I agree, its only the BF activists who seem to get that het up (on here and in RL) and IMO its more a sign of their own insecurities than anything else.

....

What an ironic post from you whatmeworry - I have never seen any poster as act mote het up or insecure about bf than you.

My dad and his wife are the only people to have ever commented negatively on me BF.

Other people either congratulated/complimented me, patted the baby on the head (old ladies are very odd!), came and watched very closely asking lots of questions (children) or didn't really give a shit!

I don't really get the people who agree to leave places/feed in the toilets. Given that it's not against the law, they'd have to physically have moved me. I certainly wouldn't have gone willingly.

Oh and my mother "Ok I think you've made your point now".

Hello Pom. I think I remember your name from the surviving newborn/toddler thread.

I was much more conscious of people's views (real or imagined ) on Bf when I had ds, but I think it was because it was all so new. Not too new to my family, thanks to my cousin's wife who (collective gasp from family), bf all 4 of hers. My dad's siblings were all fed on condensed milk and sugar (pre/during/post war).

I did have times when I would try and find somewhere private to feed, and it took a long time to get over the anxiety of feeding in public. However, I can't remember a single time anyone ever said anything to me when I was out in public. However, I did cause a bit of a stir on the plane to Majorca when, sat behind a large group of lads, I fed dd. A ripple ran through the rows of seats, and there were suddenly a number of them who needed to look behind them. I felt nostalgic for the days when merely a glimpse of my vest-contained, gravity-defying orbs would do the same. Hey ho.

Dd is now almost 8 months now though, and I am getting lots of, "oh, you can stop soon" and "haven;t you done well." Er, no, I've become lazy. Doing well would actually be doing something about weaning her off before I go back to work. Most people in ds's nursery seem astounded that I'd bf at all - most think it's too much trouble. But then maybe it's where I live.

I'm afraid I'm a bit of an oversharer, so I do tend to talk about leaky boobs and stuff in front of my non-baby friends. But they got the juicy details of my promiscuous youth, so this is the flipside.

QuiteHowever you do it, feeding your baby has to be one of the most emotional and stressful things ever. Are they eating enough, are they eating too much, are they hungry, why won't they eat etc etc. I hated breastfeeding, DS was a tricky feeder, and I just found it frustrating and annoying and I hated the sensation. I agonised for weeks about giving up, before finally making the decision. I wobbled a bit and did feel like I was beingjudged but looking back I think it was mostly in my head (there was a woman art breast feeding group who wasquite rude, but she was weird about everything so I tried not to take it personally). so im not sure if you are being u, because I think it does happen, but I think it's getting better.

I think more people 'care and judge' on MN than anywhere else in the world WorraLiberty - true.

"I agree, its only the BF activists who seem to get that het up (on here and in RL) and IMO its more a sign of their own insecurities than anything else."

No whatmeworry, FFers get just as het up, yourself included. You pop on every single BF/FF thread and bang on and on.

You're deluded if you think only one side (the one you're not on, natch) cares. And yes, I do agree, it is all about insecurities...

i got called a bf activist tother day but i allways have been even when my kids were fully weaned and befor i had the next one but in my head im also a ff activist as i just think we should support mothers for there own feeding choices and basic manors means we shouldnt get offish or negative about either choice

How would you guys remember whatmeworry if you didn't pop into every BF/FF thread yourselves?