to wonder whether I should say something to my friend about her carseats? (more of a WWYD really..)

[RagamuffinAndFidget]

I have a friend who seems to see the next stage of carseat as something achieve, as a sign of growing up. She moved her two DSes (3yo - the same as my DS1 - and 1.5yo) into stage one carseats when they were each around six months old, because they 'looked cute' and 'it made them look like big boys'. She has never had the straps tight enough for either of them - my DS1 used to be quite a chunky monkey, compared to her skinny DS1 definitely so, and the straps were pretty lose on him once when she gave us a lift into town. I tightened them quite a lot.

She's just posted a picture of her DS1 on the dreaded Facebook in a stage two carseat (the one meant for 4-11 year olds, I think) and said that she 'just thought she'd try him in it' and that he 'really likes being a big boy in it'. Well, that's lovely maybe, but what if she has a crash? Is it actually dangerous for them to be moved up before they're big enough for the next stage of carseat? I'm assuming they have stages for a reason.. there is no way her DS1 is anywhere near the 40lb weight limit or that he's tall enough to warrant a new carseat, he's very slim and petite.

Should I say something to her? AIBU to get involved? I genuinely don't think she even thinks it's all that dangerous, or that there are any risks involved in not having children properly secured in the right stage carseat..

Change it to you doing her a favour, not criticising her. Tell her (and it is true) that she is breaking the law and that you don't want her to get a ticket.

Car seats only need a max weight as the weight of a child is not the important part, its their height. They must be tall enough that the straps fit on the shoulders and not high on the neck. Too high straps will cause injury in a crash.
Also, straps should start above the shoulder not below so you shoulnt squeeze too big children into too small car seats

I fudged a bit and said that I'd recently been to get a new carseat for DS2 (11mo and almost ready to move up to a stage one seat) and that the chap advising me had given lots of advice about height and weight limits. She just replied saying that she moves them up when she 'knows they're ready'. Apparently her DS2 went forward facing at four months, not six as I previously thought.. which is totally idiotic really. She clearly doesn't care about the guidance at all.

I once told a playgroup that one of the mothers was driving her 2 year old about with no carseat as I was worried about her. I was accused of being a carseat nazi by said mother. I assume the playgroup said something to her.
I'm not, I had my small 4.5 DS in a five point harness and my 15 month old DD rear-facing at the time. Now I have a 5.11 year old in a high backed booster and my very tall 2.8 in a five point harness stage one seat. Done up tightly despite her tantrums.

Pompoko, I don' think that's right (about the straps). I've been told that the child's height is important only in regard to where their head is on the seat - as long as their head is at least an inch below the top of the seat, the straps can start below their shoulders. I don't see how it would possible on my carseat for the straps to start above DS' shoulders (he's 6 months and just shy of 20lbs) now. He'll be staying in that car seat until he grows out of it height-wise, and ideally I would like to get another RF seat, but they're really hard to find round here.

I've seen some awful videos on youtube that show the damage that turning forward facing too early can do to a baby. Plus, not being strapped in at all?! The child could not only die, but cause massive injuries to other people in the car. People are idiots sometimes. Loads of people round here seem to drive those massive 7 seater things, and have none of their kids strapped in. I just don't get why it's so difficult to strap them in?

I think you've done what a friend should do by commenting on fb about it. There's nothing you really can do if she wants the LO to "get used to it".

I also find extended RF hard to achieve realistically. But I waited till my DD was really too big for her infant carrier to switch to a stage 1. (She was 15mo at the switch). Because I understand the benefit of staying in the smallest carseat they can fit. I was the last in my NCT group to switch, and she's no way the smallest baby! There are ones just as small as her, and was switched over at 9mo. I do think it's one of those things parents want to move up as soon as they can, because it's seen as a developmental milestone.

And like EasilyBored say, the height is the height of the head wrt the top of the carseat. Young children has no problem sitting cross legged.

It really makes my blood boil when I see kids not strapped in properly I have to stop myself having a full blown rant and remember that we have our own kids in the car who would not appreciate their mother randomly start f'ing and blinding.

My dd1 managed to get her arms out of her straps when she was 2. I made my dp pull over, she has never done it again..

Oh, there's more.. she says that the age/weight restrictions are 'just guidelines' and that 'we know our children best so know when they're ready'.

Surely it's not a question of us knowing when they're ready but more of researchers knowing when it's safe?!

I posted the other day that I am having a similar dilemma about my neighbour - sort of the opposite problem in that I think her child is way too big for her infant seat (child looks about 2, head well over the top of the seat). And I think they are possibly using the baby seat forward facing, which it won't be designed for.

I'm worrying I should say something to her, but I can't speak the language well enough, and I'm scared it won't be well-received. We're going to print out some stuff about car seats and height limits and post it into their letterbox, but I'm still nervous they'll think we're interfering and should mind our own :(

I think she acting within the law. It sounds like she's acting irresponsibly though. Do you go to playgroups or anything together? Could you get someone from RoSPA to come in and do a talk on car safety?

I have been safety conscious with my children-they've been rear facing until fourteen/fifteen months. But it's partly because I'm a bit lazy really-I like being able to transfer the car seat to the pushchair. Also, I feel the opposite to the "how great it is they look so grown up" brigade. I am quite pleased my one year old last baby is still that! But I wouldn't do it if it weren't the safest option. Just a quick question-is it wrong that my 3.8 year old is in a high back booster? His head is well above the top of our maxi cosi Tobi.

I agree with everything rosie and mummymeister said.

We brought a 7 seater planning dc3 but realised it costs to damn much, I'm now 4mnths pregnant, we are swapping to a fuck ugly multipla to lower our car costs and ensure we can still fit good carseats in for all our dcs. My 3.7yo is nearing the top weight for her 5pt harness and it makes me feel sick the thought of her moving to an adult belt.

Someone on facebook posted photos of there 12 plate audi the other day, and there just turned 3yo in the back with no carseat, the 9mo ff with loose straps.
I passively aggressively posted a report from which? With crash test videos. She removed the photo.

If you have said something and she's ignored it then there's not much more you can do :( One mum from a circle of my friends put her DD in a high-back booster a month before her 2nd birthday because 'she just wouldn't sit in her toddler seat'. We were all horrified and TBH I wish I had said something.

Your friend is an idiot.

If he's over 15kg - which is likely if he's 3 - then it is legal and technically she's doing nothing wrong. Likely a booster is safer in her situation because the seatbelt will tighten by itself, than a group 1 seat with loose straps anyway.

What Bertie said.

Obviously your friend is an idiot for moving up at 4mo, but if he's 3yo then a booster with seatbelt is likely fine for a 3yo. My DS is very skinny and has only just moved into a HBB (just 18kg now) at 4.5yo. His friend was over the 18kg limit at just over 3yo so went into a seatbelt one then.

Booster seats without side protection aren't ideal, but they are legal for children over 15kg. (no idea what the 40lb limit relates to, sorry)

Do you mean just a booster cushion style seat is legal for over 15kg? Blimey-def don't feel ds is safe like that. In any case, we'd go for high backed boosters with side protection anyway,safety or not, as they're more comfortable for long journeys.

It is Molehill - though I was talking abut the high backed kind.

I think a booster cushion type seat would be unsuitable anyway because the seatbelt would surely be too high.

Yep.

I have had this argument for 5 years with my DB. I have a lot of time with my DN and have done since she where a baby. She without exception has never been in my car without her carseats that I purchased for her.

I had a row once with DB because I didn't have car seat with me and he wanted me to run him and DN home from the shopping centre. I refused on the point I didn't have the car seat. (15 minute bus journey door to door) He said he didn't mind he would hold her, I refused. He told me it was not up to me if his daughter was in a car seat HE was her father and he was sick of me treating her as if I where her mother!!

Needless to say he did not get a lift, when he had calmed down I calmly told him it was down to me, it was my car, I am the driver therefore legally and morally responsible for her wellbeing. There was no risk to her health the day she got the bus home with her dad, she was not unwell, there was no need at all to risk her safety in the car without a car seat. If he had a problem with this then it was his problem but she would NEVER get in my car without an appropriate seat because if I screwed up and crashed (which is possible - I'm only human) or someone went into us and she died or was injured I would never forgive myself.
Showed him a few you tube videos and he got the drift.

On another point she is 5 now and has a booster seat which is legal, measured her, weighed her etc but I do not like it. I like her being pinned in a 5 point harness she seems to have too much movement in the booster chair. Got a baby on the way myself now too so car seats are going to have to be relooked at.

Ragamuffin, I apologies for hijacking but I have a similar problem that I need some advice on, sorry. It may help you also.

My PIL have hinted about whether DTs are able to go in their car seats now. They have a car seat for a 3 /. 4 year old in their car. I've not looked at whether or not the seat is appropriate because I don't want them to go in the car with them.

A number of times when they had DN in the car, I looked at the car seat and the straps were too loose and it was fitted incorrectly. I pointed this out, showed them how to do it etc. Mentionned it to SIL (DN is her son), but it was so obvious it didn't fit properly, you pulled the top of the car seat and it moved forward a foot. Awful. As a result I got them a new car seat for my DS1, who is 5, a simple booster seat, not ideal but at least you cannot mess it up when putting a child in. I thought better a correctly fitted seat than something worse than useless.

I think that no matter how many times I show them, they still get it wrong. Any ideas?