More of a WWYD - Neighbour to friendly with Children

[FadingAwayToAHippo]

ok, just some advice on how to tackle the situation.

We have lived at our current house for 6 years, and we have 2 dds, 3yo (almost 4) and 2yo.

We live in a fairly quiet street with lovely neighbours, the neighbours on one side are fairly nosey but generally ok. The problem is their 28 year old daughter.

For as long as I can remember she has came out her house everytime we pull up or leave the house to say hi to the girls and asks for kisses and cuddles. this was fine as I could usher them fairly quickly in and out the car. then we started letting the kids play in the back garden whilst i cooked dinner, you cant access our garden except from the back door and their is a 6ft fence on two side but only a hedge between us and this neighbour. I used to watch them from the window so one day i watched this girl lift DD over into her garden.

I went out and told her off and also told DD off and said she was to never leave the garden without coming to ask me first.

Now there is a new wee girl, 6yo who lives round the corner and she likes to come and chap for the girls so I allow them to play in the front garden and I watch them from the front step. I actually dont mind it as I get a chance for a cuppa in peace whilst watching them play happily, rather than the usual refereeing sibling quarrels.

Our neighbour has now started to come out and hang over our fence the whole time the kids are playing. and asking for kisses and cuddles and then DD1 will say "xx come and play in our garden" which she does and spend the whole time lifting DD1. DD1 lets her do this as I am now constantly refusing to lift her on the basis she is a big girl and can walk. So I have to say loudly "DD1 get down you are too big to be lifted"

Our front garden has a 3 ft fence all round but no gate. so I am trying to teach the girls that they can't leave the garden, as its on a road, for people parking etc. My SIL lives two doors up and they have, on occasion, seen her parking and ran out. One day last week when this happened and neighbour was at the gate I shouted at the DDs and told them off, about the danger of roads and not leaving the garden without permission etc. The very next day again when SIL showed up neighbour actually lifted DD2 and started walking along the street with her. So again I shouted "DD2 I have told you not to leave the garden without asking, I know neighbour is an adult but you did not ask permission" Neighbour says "but she was just going to see auntie X" I said yes but you were here yesterday when I asked them not to leave the garden wiothout asking, if they dont do it everytime they will think they can leave when auntie x isnt there and then what?

Sorry this is really long!!

So yesterday again, the same thing happens and neighbour lifts DD1 over the fence so I just brought the girls in and said dinner was ready.

I said to DP what shall we do, he has before said just ignore it (he's very laid back) but yesterday he said I think you need to speak to her mum???? She's 28 for god sakes.

So (and well done for getting this far) WWYD? anything?

What I want to say is "Neighbour, please leave them alone to play and stop asking my kids for kisses"

Sqeaky if this young woman DOES have SN though the OP says she does not think so as she feelsthe Mother would already have told her so...she was comfortable enough to share that she has invertednipples ....then she is a very lax parent as a grown child with SN needs proper care and this is not happening.

To me, from what OP says, it would appear they are simply people who are ignorant and lacking in social skills.

It wasnt aimed at anyone zzzzz, it was meant in general. So you can put the away.

My friends daughter is able to "flirt". She doesnt realise it is flirting as such. Her behaviour can come across as being flirty if you dont know her. She has had a crush on my husband for the last 20 years. I can very easily imagine her behaving in exactly the same way the OP has described her neighbour. She adores children and babies. She does not know what is and isnt appropriate adult behavour. She would never in a million years have any intention to hurt them or abuse them.

Many people with SN are able to work and hold down a job, and why shouldnt they?

The woman the OP describes is not able to converse on an equal level, that is very clear from what the OP has posted.

I would say that the best course of action for the OP is to imagine this woman as a child, because from what has been posted, that is how the woman is behing. What would you do if a child was behaving in this manner? You would speak to the child first (Op has done that) and if the child took no notice, you would go to the parents.

I knew what you meant Squeakytoy.

She knows nothing about this woman beyond the facts she has shared and to "imagine her as a child" squeaky would be beyond silly.

She should possibly ask the woman's Mother if she does have SN and then act from there.

HOwever I will say it again...from the behaviour of this family, it would appear that they are simply rather entiled and lacking in social skills generally.

Some people are just ignorant and not well versed in what's acceptable...they don't have SN necessarily.

what spokennerd said some people are just lacking in social skills , Op you are just going to have to tell her to leave the children alone they are not allowed to be lifted, go to the door when the children are not around and state oyu dont want her lifting them or asking for cuddles,

Please don't assume that the mother would automatically have told you her dd has specail needs. Many parents don't want to share that information having had bad reactions from people in the past.

I have a son with SN and I am very open about it - but many parents prefer to keep it private.

Talk to the mother, it really does sound as though her dd just can't understand your instructions to your children. Her behaviour is not that of a mature 28 year old woman............

I think it's irrelevant if she has special needs or not really.

Her behaviour is unacceptable, potentially dangerous and making you feel uncomfortable so that's the point.

Speak very clearly and tell her in no uncertain terms she isn't allowed in your garden to play without your permission, she isn't allowed to touch, cuddle or pick up or take your children anywhere without your permissions.

Then tell parents the same.

If they do then contact police and ss.

Please update when you've had a talk to this woman OP.

Planting tall fast growing bamboo might help a bit.

Hope it goes well.

Thanks again everyone for the advice, the weather has meant no outdoors playing but I have spoken to DD. I don't think she really understands as she's saying "but x isn't a stranger" so I'm trying to say although we know her she still shouldn't be kissing/cuddling/lifting as she's not an auntie.

Time will tell if she's taken any of it in.

I will keep you posted.

Don't put the responsibility on your daughter alone! It's the woman in the wrong here. Tell her! This is winding me up now...you seem to be enjoying acting all blase about it when you have had plenty of people on here telling you that ALARM bells are ringing.

Really unfair to expect your toddler to change her behaviour instead of the adult involved - all you have done is confuse her about strangers.

It is not down to the children, they will not understand at such a young age.
You need to speak to the 28yo and her mother and discontinue allowing your dcs out front until this woman gets the message.
Let them play in the back garden and invite their 6yo to play instead.
This woman as i said earlier, must have special needs or be weird wanting to befriend little girls-it is not normal behaviour of a 28yo woman to befriend small children, then encourage them to walk out of their garden then down the street.
Please do not place this on your dcs shoulders, the adults are at fault here

Reading through your OP I like others wondered if the neighbour has SN, bit I agree with the previous poster who said that were it a man you would have dealt with things already and Im sure your hubbie wouldn't be quite so 'laid back' either?

I see why you told the children and nit her, its a gentle way of telling her I suppose, but it isn't working and you will just continue to tell your dc off for something that this grown up is doing.

Im sure she's harmless, but she is undermining you whether she means to or nit and when you are trying to teach your children about safety, that could be very dangerous no?

I would speak to her parents, though Im not sure what you would say?? Maybe explain 1st that you are only coming to them as you don't want to upset/embarrass their dd but that you can't keep telling your dc off.

excuse blooming rubbish typing .....am jet lagged :-(

Sorry, I should have said that I wasn't aiming in directly at neighbour, I was just going over strangers with DD and explaining that although we know neighbour she's not an aunt so shouldn't be getting kisses and cuddles. I wasn't putting rresponsibility on DD, just chatting to se what kind of awareness she has. I also didn't want her getting upset when I was talking to neighbour so though it best she knew in advance that I didn't think it was ok.

Spokennerd I can assure you I'm not being blasé about it but due to the weather the dds haven't been out playing so no chances to deal with it.

I think I need to tread carefully in case she has a level of SN we are not aware of, so next time it happens I will speak directly to the daughter and if it happens again it'll be the parents.

I think the SN is a bit misleading on this one, as in it doesn't really matter if she has them or not. Her behavior is unacceptable. You seem to have tried in every subtle and non-direct way possible. From what you have said you have made it clear in a way any NT adult should understand, so either she has SN or dubious motives for her behavior or she has both.

Whatever the reason for the behavior I would go to the house and tell the family together that these things have to stop, or you will take the matter further. your instincts must be screaming at you to keep this woman away from your babies.

I'm going to get so flamed...

OP, I work with male and female offenders and your post is making my alarm bells jangle. Women can be pedophiles too, especially given her mother's lack of boundaries. To go out on a long limb : she may have been sexually abused or exposed to inappropriate behaviour by mum or never properly educated by mum on sexual boundaries. This is even more pertinent if she has SN - I have worked with paedophilic offenders with SN where some ( usually all of the above ) of these factors have been present and they have been trying to work out what has happened to them by experimenting with children close to or under the offender's mental age.

These people make up a tiny minority of NT and SN people - I am categorically not saying SN people are sex offenders, far from it! Just that that's a sub-group of the people I work with and I work with bad and mad people.

If this woman makes you worried, I wouldn't pussy foot around. I would be very clear in telling her that you and your DH do not allow her to play with your children without your permission. Say that means all the behaviour you've described. List it. Kissing and cuddling is for family only. Taking them off your property is certainly not allowed. If she persists, I would speak to her and her family making very clear that she has gone against your (as in you and DH) wishes. This is the last warning and if it happens again, the police will be involved. If it happens again, call the police. If this family struggle with boundaries, then you must be firm with yours.

I think it's very unlikely that she is a sex offender or dangerous, I am all too aware this is a short post on the Internet, not a case file, but I couldn't not post. It sounds too much like grooming behaviour, hence the need to stamp it out!

Im with sadnoonie on this one, i was thinking the same thing but didn't dare be the first to say it

sadnoonie glad that you posted that, as I was abused as a 9 year old by a girl of about 15. Girls and women both groom and abuse younger children. It isn't just men that do this.

Apart from anything else, most young adults don't really want to spend extended periods of time with very young children, except perhaps if they have nieces and nephews. They just don't relate to them.

IMO much better to be suspicious of her motives and act accordingly, rather than to take a more relaxed approach of 'oh, she couldn't possibly mean any harm' for it all to unravel horribly at a later date.

Sadnoonie I am glad you posted that...it put into words my vague and uneducated guesses...

I'm glad you spoke to your DD about strangers, as I think it must have been confusing for them to have been told off for something they had no control over.
I agree that for whatever reason the woman is behaving like this, it is unacceptable and in the first instance you need to spell it out to her very clearly. You do not want her kissing/ cuddling your daughters, you do not want her lifting them, she must not take them out of the garden. I would put a stop to her coming into your garden at all - she needs to be told she is too old to be playing with your daughters.
If she continues, then speak to the mum, although from what you say it doesn't sound like she would be much help.
If it still continued, maybe approach your children's HV and ask her advice in the first instance. Mine's a wealth of information when it comes to professional help for all sorts of things.

Such a hard case because you'll have to deal with it face to face. But you know your children come first, way above and beyond any neighbours and their feelings, I'm relieved you've decided to talk to her (very very firmly please).
I'm glad I read to the end before posting as I was going to say something similar to sadnoonie. I would just add that over-affectionate behaviour can be a sign that someone has suffered abuse themselves, which unfortunately can be the start of a vicious cycle (I know not always).

There's lots of info on the net about teaching chiildren about stranger danger. Maybe your neighbour would be put off if your kids screamed 'No! Stranger!' in her face when she tries to pick them up etc. Here's a link to one of the many good things that come up when you google:
www.personalsafetyadvice.co.uk/what-stranger-danger.html