to say something about SIL's baby plans

[nomorethan2thankyou]

ok bit of background. SIL (DHs sister) has 2DCs and we have two DCs. she is a single mum, absolutely lovely and loves her children more than anything. however, she does have a range of health issues which mean that me and DH help her with looking after her DCs a lot (at least one day every weekend and over school hoidays with her eldest). we are happy to do this because she really needs the help and her two DCs are lovely and get on with ours really well, but we do find it exhausting with them altogether. she does struggle with them at home, especially when her youngest DS was a little baby and did need help from the family a lot.
well at the weekend, she told us that she had decided she was going to have another baby by having one night stands until she got pregnant basically. i think she expected us to be pleased for her. we just kind of froze and didn't know what to say. she thinks she can manage it (i think she has forgotten how hard she found it when her youngest DS was newborn) because she knows she has help from family (DHs parents help her out all week with her DCs).
not only are we worried about the risks she is taking with her health and her managing on her own with 3DCs, but we are also worried about PIL managing (in their 60s with their own health issues). she is also heavilly in debt and gets by on her overdraft, so we do worry about her coping financially as well.
DH thinks she is being selfish and feels angry with her. i feel sorry for her because i know she isn't happy and desperately wants something to make her happy (i think she may be a bit depressed, which is making it harder for her to manage her current health issues, although i don't think it would be a good idea for me to say anything). PIL just desperately want her to be happy and will always help her out when she needs them no matter what, although i'm certain they don't believe it is a good idea.
the fact is although DH and I are happy to help her out with her two DCs, realistically we all know as time goes on and it becomes more difficult for her and PIL she is going to be relying on us more and more to help. we love them and are happy to take on more of an active role with them. but the fact is we couldn't manage to help in this way if she had another one, 4DCs together is hard enough for us (we only had 2DCs oursleves for a reason!). we know it is her decision, but surely if you know you are going to rely on help from others then you need to consider them as well?
i know she will carry out her plan and will get pregnant. don't know what to do. do we say anything? do we tell her that we can't manage to look after all 5 and if she does have another one she'll have to sort something else out (thats what DH thinks we should do but i know if we withdrew that support it would only make more work for PIL), do we need to get a bit tough and do as another family member has said and tell her to stop being selfish? really don't know what to do but we cannot manage with helping her with anymore children. that might make us the selfish ones but we can't change that.
sorry about the length of this post.

To call this a 'plan' is being too kind i think! It is a ridiculous brain fart at best.

I always think it's amazing when people rely on help then kid themselves they are coping on their own. What she is doing is volunteering you and Pils without your consent to providing assistance.

Also - just an aside - i do not know of one man who would have a one night stand without using a condom. So she may have to go thru quite a lot before she finds someone else as irresponsible as her. If she says to someone 'no please don't use protection' they will clearly know why and run a mile.

I would be saying now your thoughts and withdrawing help just so she knows how difficult this would be. Also i would speak to her about addressing whatever it is that is missing in her life that she feels this would fill.

This is crazy and so wrong. Take PIL o. holiday for a week and leave her to look after her two on her own.

What about the possible baby who will have no father and an irresponsible woman for a mother.

I think tell her the whole truth. Someone needs to tell her.

You and your husband sound absolutely lovely to have helped her out for so long. But I think the time has come for your DH to sit her down and as her brother to tell her this idea is outrageous and the only one happy with it will be her.

I totally get she might be depressed, or not depressed but just broody as all hell, but there is no excuse. Even if she is not counting on yours and her parents support and help when this baby is born, how does she suddenly think she will be able to cope when the two she does have she is not able to look after without a lot of care from other people?

Spuddy - sadly, I have know a lot of men happy to accept 'I'm on the pill' and not use a condom. Granted, this was a long time ago (late teens/early twenties) but I'm not sure things have changed that much.

I think withdrawing your help and PILs for month is the only way to get her to see how hard she would find having a third child. If she's intelligent she should appreciate that she needs to prove (to herself) that she can cope with a third plus she is endangering her health if she has unprotected one night stands. Could MIL talk to her about and then present withdrawing help for a month as being for her benefit? Then stick to it rigidly.

I love sesame's idea of taking your PIL away for a week (or even a long weekend) to give them a break, and see how she copes on her own. You could perhaps discuss her 'plan' with them whilst away?

withdrawing help would not be realistic. the fact is some days she can barely move and we can't just leave her and the kids to get on with it (the youngest is 18 months). she knows that she can't manage by herself but it doesn't seem to put her off.
as for not having the kids so she can go out, well, it turned out her last DC was conceived through her meeting men on the internet, giving them her address and inviting them round before she had met them whilst her eldest DC was asleep upstairs. we only found out because her son told DH that he didn't like waking up and having to have breakfast with men he didn't know :( so basically, that wouldn't put her off.
(DH took her eldest son to our house after he had told him that and refused to take him back, he was fuming, obviously he had to take him back in the end though. it was me who did the bridge building after that)

She may well have a first, OP, but she's still a fricking idiot!

This "plan" has nothing going for it. The best I can imagine is that it's not really a plan but some sort of weird attention-seeking cry for help? You say you know she isn't happy, could this be possible?

Is she on a death wish?
I did online dating & met dh online but you never give your address out to a complete stranger. They could have hurt or her child. Unbelievable.

Christ! Yes someone needs to tell her this is a loony idea on many many levels. Apart from anything else, there is every chance that the father will want nothing to do with a child conceived this way and that is not fair on the child, but that aside, it's crazy for the reasons everyone else has said. Most of us are far too tactful most of the time and are so careful not to be brutally honest but just sometimes it is necessary.I once told a friend of mine who had had a fling, left her husband and 2 kids and was trying to justify it to everyone, that she was being utterly stupid, selfish and ultimately would not be happy. She went back and reconciled with her DP and subsequently thanked me. The only reason I knew to say it was because no-one said it to me when I left my ex and I wish now that they had. please be honest with her and maybe try and get her to face up to why she wants this.

"and we can't just leave her and the kids to get on with it "

I´m tempted to ask why?

Is she not entitled to any help at all?

So for the last 18 months you haven´t had a complete weekend just the four of you?

She sounds completely irresponsible tbh.

Oh dear god, x-post OP! She IS a fricking idiot! And a whole lot more! It is absolutely essential that you tell her ASAP that you will not be caring for five children and that she is one selfish individual to do this to her family (and by family I mean all of you, her children, your children, you, DH and PIL). Maybe if you make it clear enough it will be a reality check for her, because with what she has done already she is frankly a danger to herself.

What is it she actually wants? Have you talked to her about WHY she feels this would be a good idea?

Would she consider writing a pro's and cons list with you, so she could see on paper just exactly what other people are doing to support her, and go so far as to say what would happen if you and the IL's needed help yourselves.

You sound amazing, a really good person for supporting her and her family.

diddl - we had the weekend i was in labour with DD2! and one weekend she went away with PIL. it was lovely.

Can you talk to her health visitor. It's not fair that she's so reliant on you (never mind she wants another child). Is there help available for her? It may not be being provided because she copes by putting on her family but if family rowed back could she get assistance?

The more you write, the bleaker the picture.
I understand removal of help is not realistic, but do you think you are going to have the talk? This baby plan is crazy, but even without it, the situation doesn't seem sustainable, with your PILs getting older. Do you really want to end up carrying your PILS's load as well as your own? I don't want to sound callous, but I think a discussion about the future is necessary. You are obviously very generous and kind hearted, but I presume your priority is your own family?
You say she has a good job. Is there anyway she could pay for some outside help that could relieve your PILs a bit? If not, has she tried getting help from some agencies. I don't know anything about it, but maybe there is something available out there?
Sorry if I sound presumptuous, don't hesitate to tell me to back off!

plus PIL are trying to get her help, but nothing seems to come of it.

It does sound a bit like you're enabling her irresponsible behaviour by providing all this unconditional help. Babysitting or helping out once in a while is great, that's what families do, but you and your PILs between you having the children pretty much every day, indefinitely, sounds way beyond what would normally be expected. You're not selfish at all to say you will not be looking after another child for her, you would be sensible.

If she has a good job, can she afford a nanny or similar? Is she entitled to any state-funded help due to her health problems/disabilities (if they are really so severe that she's unable to do day to day care for her children?)

I can't believe her lack of consideration for you all. Could you ask her DS to yell out 'My mum is using you to get pregnant' every time she brings someone back? Sorry... I shouldn't joke but she is by her actions.

I would ask her whether she'd be willing to forfeit the health of one of her parents to do this. Like ohmygosh said I would withdraw support and try to get PIL on board to do this also. Like another poster said I would ask her to think about contracting HIV or something.

I would ask her to see a HP about her mental state to see if she can be helped there. I would ask her DCs to try and speak up if they are also unhappy.

Good luck... you sound very kind people!

mayaswell - i know what she wants, she wants her own family, a man who loves her and the kids and to be able to make plans rather than just getting by. unfortunately, without sounding like a bitch, i suspect she needs to have a little more self-respect to help her meet mr right.

You need to sit down with PILs and discuss this, you are going to be the ones who raise this child, it's perfectly reasonable you all discuss it and how to cope.

I agree withdrawing help, or at least reducing it. She needs to see she's not just planning on having another child, she's planning on giving other people additional responsisbilities.

This might be better to have a long term talk, you seem to have drifted in to supporting her - without thinking if they should be supporting her to continue to live like this or look at other options, are social services involved?

Forget depressed, she sounds like she needs sectioning How could she think it a good idea to put herself, her children, her home and the men in such danger in any case, let alone when she isn't in a good enough state to physically care for her existing children?! This actually happened to a neighbour of a close relative; she was using her home as a brothel (just her) and her family got her sectioned as she was not mentally competent.

She can hold down a job, shag with abandon but not look after her dcs? You don't think you're being taken for a ride and really she's just a lazy arse?

I agree with ReportMeNow, have you ever actually seen any physical signs of her illness? Has she had any medical treatment?

is she hadn't run up so many debts, then yes, more than likely she would be able to pay for some help. i know this sounds terrible but i think she can do more to help herself feel better, such as losing weight and giving up smoking, but when MIL suggested that it was not met well...