To want to be spanked?

[sexonthebeach]

Inspired by '50 shades of grey' thread (although I haven't read the book!) AIBU to have a secret desire to be 'dominated' - but only on a temporary basis (as i am not naturally submissive!). Do any of you have such fantasies? I would hate to be anything other than equal in a partnership but can't help feeling that there is a shortage of 'real men' out there. Then again, if i met one, i expect we wouldn't be compatible......

"Real men" as opposed to imaginary ones? Would his trousers hang from his hips too, as in the 50 Shades of Sh*te book of emotionally abusive relationships?

Tie me up, tie me down etc. has it's place if you like it. But don't ever read that book and think it is anything other than poorly written Twilight fanfic.

I don't know about the feminist take on male/male violence but my human being take on it is that any non consensual violence is abhorrent.

The one exception I can think of would be reasonable force to prevent greater injury for example - grabbing someone's arm to pull them out of the way of a moving vehicle.

To address the OP no you are not BU, people enjoy all sorts of things but the point is that it is consensual.
S&M is not my flavour gravy but I wouldn't be able to hit (and I wouldn't want to be hit either).

If that's what you really want find a willing chap who is discreet, who wants it too and set some agreed ground rules from the start.

JeanBodel and so you don't believe feminism is the right to enjoy whatever turns you on (and is mutually consensual obviously)

I don't think I like the suggestion that my partner and I indulging in a sexual practice that we both find pleasureable is unhealthy. What is wrong with two consenting adults enjoying themselves? As I said up thread, a little pain enhances my pleasure. If I ask for this, and DP is happy to oblige, then what's the problem?

No Ariadne, I am not a proponent of choice feminism.

We don't make choices in a vacuum. We make them in a cultural context.

There are many things that are fun for an individual, but bad for the wider society. We all make moral choices on these things.

Maybe in a world where women had achieved equality, where rape and violence weren't being used as weapons against women (for example in some of the wars going on right now), M/f violence in the bedroom could be seen in isolation as a mutually consensual activity.

We don't live in that world and so I don't think we can separate off this type of violence and claim it is not contributing to wider cultural mores.

'lWe don't make choices in a vacuum'

I argue that choices made in the bedroom are pretty much made in a vacuum .I can't see how they affect anyone else.

I think the vacuum concept is relevant, actually. There is a slight risk that you try it and decide you don't like it after all, but the experience converts your OH who then pushes to include it in your sex life (or even gulp domestic life) more frequently thereafter.

I think I'm with Jean Bodel on this.

Years ago went to a sex club in New York out of curiosity. Guys were having candles melted onto their backs. Goodness knows how they explained that to their wives. Must have been agony

It's not agony and it doesn't leave marks ^

And how does that express any relevance to what Bodel said?

yy RuthlessBaggage (love your name!) - iirc, there was a thread a few years ago on that very subject - a MNer had explored a few BDSM practices with her H out of curiousity/fantasy fulfilment, she wasn't that impressed with the RL actuality of it all but he got really into it and became abusive to her, wanting a 'taken in hand' kind of relationship. I believe she got out of it (I hope she did), but I think it can be risky.

I had/have fantasies along that line (I love reading Michael Manning's stuff, for example), but in RL? Nooo! It hurts! Why would you want to do that?

And 50 Shades of Shite is an awful, awful book. I couldn't get past her terrible, terrible prose style enough to find any of it sexy...

I just loved what KarlosKKrinkelbeim said about porn. I found that original and thought provoking. I wonder how many women reading 50 shades are going to copy the scenes and claim to be 'sexually liberal'?

All that spanking stuff has been around for yonks. I've been wondering about it's appeal too. I wonder if men (predominately, but also some women) like to play with power (isn't it more about the power than the pain per se?), trying to define it's boundaries in a sexual context. I can't figure out why someone would WANT to be the submissive though...perhaps it's something along the lines of the Stockholm syndrome?

Sexual practices and morality? Not sure how these go together. Wasn't gay sex morally wrong until relatively recently?

There are women out there from happy backgrounds with respectful loving partners who like a bit of consensual BDSM in the bedroom.

But this is not in a vacuum. Some of them buy products. Some of them buy books and magazines. Click on internet links. Post on forums.

Advertising agencies pick up on this. The media picks up on this. BDSM becomes more mainstream, starts to feature in mainstream magazines where more people are exposed to it. This was happening before 50 Shades was ever published.

On the other side of the track, there are women out there who think that their boyfriend beating them up now and then is normal. Their dad did it to their mum. Every boyfriend they've ever had has smacked them about a bit when he got drunk. It happens to their sisters, their cousins, their friends - it's normal for them.

There are people out there trying to teach these women that this is not normal, that Mr Right does not give them the occasional black eye.

Then a book like 50 Shades is published. It gives a twisted picture of BDSM, not in a loving context, but in a highly abusive relationship. It's not helping.

"I wonder how many women reading 50 shades are going to copy the scenes and claim to be 'sexually liberal'?"

LeBFG yep, I fully expect this to happen in the way that 'lezzing up' became fashionable a few years ago and started women thinking that it would be man-pleasing cool and edgy to snog their female friends when they were out clubbing on a Saturday. Quite depressing really.

I know from personal experience that BDSM can be psychologically damaging. Yet at the time I thought I was enjoying it.

Lovecat - thanks! It's new

The physical effects are uncomplicated, as it happens. Increased blood flow to the relevant region. Does the same job as massage, nibbling, scratching, etc. But the baggage that goes with it (that is to say the power play, role play, etc) is where our abuse filter kicks in. The idea of sex as reward or punishment horrifies me.

I read an interesting blog recently which I now annoyingly can't find about the prevalence if the "rape fantasy". The blog argued that what women perceive as a rape fantasy is more properly a "swept away from humdrum existence by assertive and necessarily handsome stranger, treated to mind-blowing and unrealistically generous sex and living happily ever after" fantasy.

Yanbu. Nothing wrong with light spanking. Had a fling once with a bloke that liked to bite. Didn't mind that either until he did it too hard one day! fine line!

Think about the 'normal' mainstream act of PIV sex. Every day, similar scenarios play out. A man wants it, thinks he has a right to it. A woman doesn't really want it but feels she can't say no, or is unable to communicate her no, or in extreme cases says no but still has the choice taken away from her.

Think about spanking becoming mainstream. Large numbers of men start to become turned on by inflicting pain on women. Spanking becomes part of a 'normal' sexual repertoire, which means that some women will find it harder to say no. Women who have been abused will try it with partners who have made no effort to educate themselves in BDSM safe practices. Some of them will get triggered - it will have a negative effect on them mentally, perhaps do long-term mental damage.

At the very least, supporters of M/f violence in the bedroom should make sure they educate people about the crucial importance of consent, negotiation, respect before anyone starts with the hurting. They should also universally condemn 50 Shades for its dangerous portrayal of BDSM. In my opinion, of course.

JeanBodel did the sexual revolution completely pass your brand of feminism by.This thread is all about women who want spanking.

'Every day, similar scenarios play out. A man wants it, thinks he has a right to it. A woman doesn't really want it but feels she can't say no, or is unable to communicate her no, or in extreme cases says no but still has the choice taken away from her.'

In that case there is something fundamentally very wrong with the relationship ,before spanking enters the picture!

Jean I agree. In fact I'm tempted to say that it's probably safer to explore bdsm with a new, experienced partner, so that it only sets the tone for the rest of the relationship if both want to continue, and so that one is experiencing the best of it (newbies are bad at judging force and reactions).

And I'd argue that at some level DV is already/still culturally accepted, which is why it is hard to define the true boundary between play and abuse (another forum I am on rather unhelpfully prefers to consider a first slap a marriage-ending assault, regardless of consent/desire/play/arrangement).

I have more I could share here but don't want to out myself. Suffice it to say that in my opinion it isn't the act itself that is problematic, but rather what it does to a person's perception of "normal".

Crossposted with *Aradn

Although I agree, of course, with you Jean - I'm not sure what you're proposing. Some sort of "sex manifesto"? Or educational courses in BDSM?

Light-weight BDSM (largely what's being discussed here) is for the vast majority of people just a bit of titilation, for a very small minority it might move onto something more abusive...but wouldn't that happen anyway, despite the spanking fashion? To be against light-weight BDSM for the majority because of some alleged effect on a small minority group seems a bit odd to me.

Bugger it.

Cross-posted with Ariadne.

Wanting it and getting it are different things, basically. In your mind you might think "ooh wouldn't it be exciting to be spanked by " but in reality you can't overcome say thirty years of "don't hit girls" in a man's head without risking removing that rule from his head altogether. Similarly, you can't stop telling yourself "it is not ok for my partner to hit me" without defining the "unless" very clearly and explicitly.

It is a slippery slope question, that's all. One can gradually slip from "occasional pat during sex" to "formalised but consensual play punishment sessions" to "associating sex with violence" and so on.

LeBFG I agree that there is probably more consensual bdsm lite than abusive non consensual bdsm, but I think Jean is arguing for clearly defined and informed trials rather than wallops willy-nilly.