to feel sad that friend is happy to be separated from her newborn for first 3 nights

[Whoneedssleepanyway]

My friend is due to have DC2 in a few weeks and after a very bad labour resulting in some problems for her DS, she has booked into a private hospital for an elective CS.

I w her the other day and she said the hospital insist she stays in 3 nights and it is brilliant as they will take the baby to the nursery all night for her so she can sleep and will feed the baby for her as she doesn't intend to BF.

I didn't pass comment as this is up to her but I can't help feeling a bit sad that her baby won't be with its mum for the first 3 nights of its life but will be with some stranger, both my DDs slept with me (on my chest) for first 3 nights.

AIBU?

And what a nasty piece of work you must be to say something like that. Selfish? Fuck off, we almost died

Show the studies rather than just jump on the bandwagon.

It wasn't my choice -- not to have them taken away or to have them with me. It happened according to the protocol of the hospitals. I had four deliveries without pain relief, the first of those not by choice either but because of the messed up scheduling system that left too few anesthetists available for far too many scheduled inductions and CSs on top of a higher than normal number of walk-ins on a Monday morning. Hospital delivery can be an endurance test both physically and emotionally for women and it shouldn't be. The only entity I am flaming here is hospitals.

Horrible - my first DD was born by EMCS under GA. I wasn't awake for the first 2 hours of her life. Does that make me cold and selfish? I nearly died, as did she.
I tried to hold her as much as I could but I was so unwell - vomiting for 24 hours, blood loss, stitches. My DH had to do most of the holding. Is he not a good substitute? I had to start looking after myself completely after 24 hours and felt despair as I was so exhausted. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture. I almost went mad. At that point I would have given anything in the world just to be allowed to sleep for 4 hours. Does that make me, or any other mother an uncaring woman?
I love my children deeply. But if there had been an option for those first few days to have proper sleep in the evening, I would have been a better mother, I think. As it was, my brain felt like it wasn't part of me and I groped my way through their first few weeks, rather than truly enjoyed them. I fully put that down to sleep deprivation.

Horriblefilagain - mwaaaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaa.

It must be lovely in that wee self righteous bubble of your'n.

I can absolutely pretty much guarantee that if you knew me on rl, the very last words you would choose to describe me would be cold and selfish.

So I'm not even going to dignify that view with any further thinking. Just laughing and pointing.

I told the OP to mind her own business so I guess I'll be one of the cold heartless ones. I maintain the view that OP should mind her own business.

I don't give a shiny shit what's best for other peoples babies really I don't. I was only interested in what was best for mine. (scbu like many others for ds1 and right by my side for ds2)

Me again.

Just one analogy - in an airplane you have to put on your mask first incase of emergency, then the childs. This way it helps ensure you can look after your child because you are leucid. The instinctive but wrong response would be to put your child's mask on first. What good are you to them if you pass out? The same analogy works with sleep. What good is a mum to a child if they are sleep deprived. Sleep deprivation is considered dangerous in all professions -pilots, doctors etc. I consider my primary profession to be a mother. I am no good, and possibly dangerous to a newborn if I am crazy with sleep. Another caring person, for a short period of time, looking after a baby so the mum is in good heath is not a terrible idea.
That's not putting yourself first, that's putting your baby first.

FFS, read the post. Obviously it is not always possible to be with your baby after birth, but to cold heartedly plan not to spend your baby's first three nights on Earth with her or him so you can look after yourself is cold and selfish. Lash out if you want, but it is, and you all know it.

Horrible. I am very ahppy to say that yes, it was all about me.

I had spent the last 6 weeks of my pregnancy practically bed bound. One of the DTs had polyhydranimous and I was huge and just could not move and I could not sleep. I also had SPD and I lost my appetite (I lost 1.5 stones during my pregnancy - the only time in my life I have ever lost weight).

The night before my waters broke at 34 +3 I cried and cried and cried that I just could not stand another day of being pregnant and that I could not bear the thought of the next two weeks to the scheduled C Section.

I just needed some time as me and not as human incubator. And I needed sleep and rest following the section

Yes, it was just about me.

And after sleeping for 6 wonderful nights. I was refreshed and felt able to take my DTs home.

Well said ButMe. Glad your DTs and you were ok in the end.

Dallas - And what a nasty piece of work you must be to say something like that. Selfish? Fuck off, we almost died .

I know nothing of your situation, but it seems ironic that you call me a nasty piece of work but you are the one lashing out and abusing strangers on the internet.....

For those of you who aren't able to understand what's being said - noone is having a go at people who had a bad time in childbirth and felt utterly unable to look after their newborns. Comment is being passed on those who plan to pass their precious newborn over for three nights after birth because they cannot be bothered to care for it.

Horrible - What a utterly pointless post.

The OP's Friend is NOT being cold and selfish. She is taking a little time to ensure that she is in the right state - mentally and physically - to take care of her little one.

Better off 3 days immediately after birth than the next year suffering PND and goodness knows what.

The only one lashing out is YOU. How dare you judge what another mum patently believes is the best option for her, her family and her situation.

FWIW, My DS was born by El CS on a saturday morning so my DH didn't have to take paternity leave. I stayed in the (private) hospital for 5 days and frequently sent my DS to the nursery at night. I am neither cold not selfish and love my DS more than life itself.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

"For those of you who aren't able to understand what's being said - noone is having a go at people who had a bad time in childbirth and felt utterly unable to look after their newborns. Comment is being passed on those who plan to pass their precious newborn over for three nights after birth because they cannot be bothered to care for it."

So is it or is it not harmful to be separated from the baby at night?

And why does the cause of that separation make any difference to the well being of the child?

Or is this just about judging women who are not fufilling your ideal of what a mother is.

I so wish i had had this option, i could have really done with a couple of nights sleep and help with a routine. I was shocked when i found out their was no night nursery for babies at the hospital (too much watching tv made me think all maternity units had nurseries). As it was the baby was tucked into bed with me and so began 4 years of sleepless nights and co sleeping.

Dallas -I specified well babies in my post as the guidelines (which are evidence based) are specific to well babies. You and other posters on here have reacted badly to poster who support rooming in, as you had sick babies who had to be cared for in nurseries. I wanted to make it clear that we are not discussing sick babies here - that is a totally different matter, and you need to stop getting on your high horse and telling posters to F* off when they are talking about well babies.

This is actually making me laugh now.

I had both my children in a private hospital (the one you would think of if you were to think of a private maternity hospital). It is COMPLETELY the norm to send your children to the nursery at night.

I had to beg to be allowed to give DS his first bath.

I had to explain why I wanted to keep DS in my room with me on the last night there. They couldn't understand why I wouldn't make use of the nursery facilities.

They called if DS needed settling / feeding.

I think posts like Horrible's are just nasty, competitive parenting. Life is hard enough.

I didn't have a choice but to spend the first 3 weeks of my child's life in another room, in another place at night so it's not something I'd do next time out of choice, even for a few days.

But it's about choice, each to their own.

I have worked many nights on a postnatal ward and if a Mum is exhausted, sore and asks I'm always happy to take the baby for a few hours so they can get some rest. So I can see it from all sides.

I wonder if private hospitals have UNICEF baby friendly accreditation incidentally?

So its harmful to well babies. But its ok for sick babies?

Well said, Butheneverdid.

I would have loved dd1 to be in another room for me & brought in for feeding (is it the bottle feeding you're upset about ?). I had a terrible night sleep with her moaning away & I think must have been in some sort of shock after the birth. Everything ached & I couldn't seem to do anything right.

Horses for courses I think..but I don't think you are BU, just perturbed by what she has told you....which clearly isn't what you would do

This is definitely pointless... it's funny how when people realise they're in the wrong they play the 'nasty competitive parenting' card!

ButHeneverdid - you say Yes, it was just about me.

I'm afraid that once you have children, it's never ever again just all about you. You always have to take your child's needs into account as well. This seems totally anathema to so many posters here, it's very sad.

It may be the norm in some hospitals to send your baby to the nursery, that doesn't make it right, or natural, or best for your baby, I'm afraid. But wait, this is mumsnet, and mum comes first at all times, of course!

I'm going to bow out now, I think.FWIW I've had many different birth experiences, the last an ELCS. I've had forceps, natural births, one that left me unable to move without pain for four days due to a botched epidural. So I have every clue what I am talking about.Not for a minute would I have considered, or been pleased about, the prospect of being separated from my baby for three nights so I could get some rest. That doesn't make me a martyr, a nasty piece of work, a competitive parent....it's just me, being a mother, doing what feels natural...being close to my baby, who needed me. I would have thought most mothers would feel the same...sadly this thread has proved me wrong.

Horrible - FIne. You did what YOU felt was natural.

Patently, this thread has shown that there are other points of view which don't appear to be illegal at this time. You may not like them. You may not agree with them. It does not make them wrong.

I will leave you with this though: I DO NOT love my child less than you love yours.

Rock pool - do you think they invent the findings of these studies based on reading a few articles in Hello magazine?

Actually they are based on observations of REAL mums and REAL babies.

Who would of thunk it?!

"it's just me, being a mother, doing what feels natural...being close to my baby, who needed me. I would have thought most mothers would feel the same...sadly this thread has proved me wrong."

You see - this is what I love most about MN. You get to interact with the sorts of people that you never speak to in your day to day life because we tend to spend time with people that have similar values to ourselves.

And then we get a huge shock when someone has such different ideas about what makes a good or a bad mum.

I have made all sorts of sacrifices for my DTs since they came along 4 years ago. They are just not the same ones as you have made.

Shag and Horrible

Please go back and read VivaLeBeaver's post. She's a practising midwife and said that she thought most mothers would appreciate the service OP is criticising. In her view, the babies were perfectly happy.

If most mothers feel like this, then by your argument, being selfish is normal maternal behaviour, which is clearly ridiculous.

But she also said that they only had the staff to help the most shattered mothers. And that, to me, is the crux of the problem. If there were enough midwives to help mothers look after their babies on the ward, then that might be different. But they're all in the delivery suites, so mothers are neglected and struggling. You surely would not say we have optimal conditions as things are?

We have a system where 'research' is used to justify not staffing nurseries because it is cheaper to put all the responsibility on mothers whether they are in a fit state or not. Which is why, regardless of the research, every granny I have met thinks things were better in their day. Not least, because no one called them selfish and it was understood that the most important thing was to allow them to rest and to get them back on their feet so they could look after their families.