DS's school

[worrywortisworrying]

OK... very calmly and rationally (and possibly very long), I am going to put down all the facts and ask all you lovely MN'ers whether IABU or not...

FACTS:

1. DS is 4
2. DS has been awarded a place in our local state school for Reception, starting Sept 2012 (First choice)
3. DS currently attends a private nursery (read childcare, not preschool) 2 mornings a week (funded by 15 hours provision)
4. DS has a diagnosis of High functioning Autism (in simple terms: Very high IQ (around 200) and very poor social skills)
5. I am currently applying for a statutory assessment (to provide a statement)

Current issue:
The proposed school do not wish to accept DS in September, but have him stay at nursery, but do longer hours which would have to be privately funded (almost £800 per month for him to do 9-3)
The school will then 'look at' transitional move starting around January 2013 but could be as long as September 2013.

So, AIBU to think this is a pants 'solution' for DS, which will distance him from his peer group (there will be no other child in the nursery of his 'year) and not give him anywhere near the academic input he needs or am I being completely irrational, emotional and over reacting about my PFB staying at nursery? And having to pay £800 for the 'privilege'????

Opinions please!

I would say that the school is not the right one for your son.

So would I.

Just spoke to them AGAIN about the missing paperwork and, amazingly, no one is available AGAIN.

Trouble is, no one wants to be bothered with my DS.

I suppose people like me, and our children, are supposed to just vanish from the face of the earth so as not to bother the perfect people.

I can see it from their POV - they are going to struggle to cope with the extra two classes as it is.

However, they are seeing your DS as a problem, not as a child. I don't think I'd want my child in that environment. But I don't know what the answer is... It certainly isn't staying at nursery though.

OK from what I know - you DS is entitled to start F/T school from the September in the aceademic year he will turn 5. Some schools prefer and try to implement staggered starts but they can start day 1.

It is cler that your DS will need a 1 2 1. I am at 150 year R's starting in September. 90 is a large amount (3 classes).

You yourself DO NOT have to pay for provision if it cannot be provided by the school. IF school is not going to be safe for him then you need to apply for the LEA to fund his provision. IF they agree the school is not the right setting but an independent school, with 1 2 1 is then they should fund it. You DS is entitled to state education that meets his needs.

I am going to make the assumption that the school have suddenly thought shit, how do we cope with 150 4yos one of which requires maximum support.

The points for your argument should be that aceademically he is above where year R works at and so he needs a tailored curriculum and social support. He WILL NOT get this at nursery.

We're just going through this. It takes 6 months to have a child statemented. His nursery are sort of good with him.
The school sounds awful already.
He needs to be in school. I'd report them to ofsted. Its disgraceful behaviour.

I don't like the sound of this school at all. It's not reasonable for you to make their job easier by keeping your ds in nursery when he's so clearly ready for school. I think you need to get onto the LEA and get politely, but firmly, awkward. Tell them that your first choice school are unprepared to honour the LEA's admissions process and that you aren't prepared to accept the school's quite woeful "solution".

Ugh - stuff like this makes me so angry. My piss is boiling on behalf of your ds

It's not that your ds is supposed to vanish from the earth so as not to bother the perfect people. It's more that there are some people that are so small minded that they don't deserve the blessings that come with children like your ds. Im not being slushy, I mean it.

I wonder why the school won't consider part time? It seems like it would be a good compromise to me. Do you think they are trying to put you off altogether?

Maybe the National Autistic Society would help you? Or the Advisory Centre for education? Both have helplines (although I found it hard to get through to ACE, once they were on the phone they were great) and they might at least be able to give you some solid advice. I contacted both when I had to do a school appeal for my ds.

Are there other schools that you would consider? It sounds odd, but you might find that a smaller school with a lower OFSTED rating would be better suited to your ds. They will have more time to spend with your ds, and could be keen to improve and would see having your ds as the wonderful opportunity that it really is for all concerned. They might also have access to more money to put the right measures in place.

I agree about looking for a school that may have a lower OFSTED rating but which will care about your ds and do their utmost to meet his needs. The real danger with the current league table system is that some schools will do all they can to preserve their precious status. This is a cunning but discriminatory ploy and makes my blood boil.

You need to get external help and advocacy from NAS or ipsea so you know what your child's rights are (I'm in Scotland and it's different).

We were in an oddly similar situation when DS dx came through in the December before he was due to start school and I actually wanted to delay for a year so he could get support in nursery (ie environment he was comfortable with). I took it as far up our LA as I could and was ultimately told 'no' because as a bright boy, delaying the start of his education for a year would do him no good at all, he'd be bored rigid by another year at nursery and that things like reading and writing would help his language skills.

Sometimes the professionals are right - staying on at nursery for another year would have been a disaster for my DS and I think the same for yours too.

I think the school is shitting itself at a huge amount of children entering this year and essentially don't have the time, energy or resources to deal with what they see as a 'problem' child. And for that alone, frankly, I'd not be sending DS to that school.

Is there anywhere else he can go? A smaller school, a less popular school - these things don't matter, it's what happens in the school that's important. Our first primary school was in a very deprived area, with a bad rep, but I'll tell you what, his first year was amazing and in a lot of ways better than the idyllic village primary he's in now.

(By the way HFA in itself wouldn't I think trigger an automatic 1 to 1. My DS has a dx of social communication disorder and has 5 hrs support, I know of 2 DCs with HFA who only get around 10 hours (but again, Scotland is different)).

No experience with Autism, but my DS1 was absent from school for 2 weeks in term 1. The damage done to his friendships was awful. It took quite a lot of play dates etc to get him back into his friendship groups, the first few weeks back were really distressing for me - seeing him so sad and alone, and I am determined to avoid taking him out of school during term time if I can.

So I completely agree with your concerns regarding your DS's friendships. If he has poor social skills, the damage resulting from a late start and other friendship groups having been formed, will require a LOT of work to undo IMO.

They are legally obliged to take him and would have to prove to the lea that your son puts other children at risk and they cannot meet his needs. If they are canny they should say that they will have him on the proviso that extra hours , ie, money is provded to fund a TA. I think they mit have done this which is why your SA form is going forward to panel earlier. It would be worth you phoning the LEA SEN dept. You should havr s designated case worker. Kick up a bit of a stink about what the school is up to. the LEA wont be happy and may well suggsted other schools if you ask. im afraid you are going to have to get bolshy.

Contact SOS SEN who will be able go help. also IPSEA. sandy Rowes book. hiw to be a velvet bulldozer is good as well. atilla the Meercat is a wizz on this stuff and is a good person to ask on the SEn board.
good luck and go and growl at the school.

I SOOO just want to tell them all to FUCK the fuck off.

Trouble is, that's just what they are waiting for me to do.
ANd I'm too much of a bitch to do it.

I'll do what's right for my son, but I am buggered if I am letting them off the hook. In fact, I hate them for it. I hate them for hating my son.

I woud second (third?) the suggestion to look for a smaller less popular school - not the same as you, but when we were looking for a school for DD2 (after 2 years home ed) and DD3 (Montessori school, then 2 years home ed) we found the lower OFSTEDed, much more mixed area, higher levels of SNs school was a much more nurturing environment, and more accepting of "different" DC.

TBH, if they are telling you now they don't want your DS, then listen to them, they most definitely won't want him when they're forced to accept him. It's like on the relationship threads - if he tells you he's a bastard, then listen. You'll spend half your time going in to meetings at school, and the rest of the time dealing with an unhappy child (because he's not getting what he needs from school).

At the same time, that would seem like backing down and agreeing they are right, when they certainly are not right.

Sorry your little boy is being treated so badly. I would start looking for an alternative school tbh I can't imagine them being the right school for your son. I would of course in the mean time make their lives miserable!

There are mainstream schools out there that will be happy to have him and welcome him equally to his peers. Ds has autism and I'm terrified of himn starting school in sept but am comforted by the fact that his school have been. Nothing but helpful in preparing ds for the transition and seem genuinely happy to have him.

A friend of mine has a child with100% autism, and the school only got into action and provided adequate support when she could prove her DS did not get an adequate education (he was kept in the shed, I kid you not, with a TA)

Your DS will not get a great "education" compared to school, if he stays in nursery, so that would be a key point for the LEA to consider.

You will have to fight lots of fights I am afraid, schools do not always have your best interest at heart, they have their own agenda, keep that in mind.

I would appeal this decision straight away if you think it will not provide the right level of education (not sure the cost would be relevant in this decision, even if it is to you!). I assume you think your child would function fine at school, right? (it is not about getting "free childcare")

Worrywart I feel for you, I really do. We have been through this, two of our DC have extremely high IQ (professionally assessed at the request of nursery and school), combined with Aspergers (diagnosed) and Aspergers (informally diagnosed by the same professional as his brother but not "officially" diagnosed as his behaviour was less of an issue at school).

The younger one was diagnosed about a week before he started nursery (in Scotland, this is similar to reception year), and we were called into school to explain ourselves..... they pretty much tried to get us to withdraw him from the school (we refused to take the hint but probably should have!).
I second all those who are saying "this is not the place for your son". I would go further than that - if you can, think about moving somewhere with a very smally school (a village, where it's the only school!). Small numbers of staff and pupils mean everyone will quickly get to know and accept your DS quirks and strengths.

I'm not going to fudge over the problems, school, at least the early years (until they got to age 13 or so) was very, very tough on my ds's and all of us in the family - many tears of frustration and anger, much gnashing and grinding of teeth.
It's a difficult thing for the education system to cope with - a child who is both very, off the chart bright, academically and also socially well behind and immature for their age. I don't think there are easy answers, but please be very aware that you may need to really push for your child's academic needs to be met - we found an over emphasis was put on social training (yes, it is important), with little understanding that boredom from a lack of academic stimulation at school was the cause of much of the behaviour in the first place - children are allowed to have a disability/difference, but are not allowed to be clever too

I very much recognise your description of door/lock obsessions - we had to lock our internal to stop DS1(the undiagnosed one) getting to the electric meter, the tv, video etc as he would take things to pieces using what ever he could find, coins, keys etc, would take furniture to pieces, took door off hinges, used to read electronics books, medical books and then, as a 4 year old, used to explain it all to his nursery teachers who reacted by not letting him read books and telling us to stop answering his questions..... that was repeated in the first years of school and his younger brother got similar comments (but his behaviour was a bigger issue).

We never stopped answering their questions, we never restricted their learning - we let them take there interests and run with them. We changed schools once, tried and failed to get DS2 into a private school. Things got better (in terms of bullying and also education wise), in S2 (age about 13). We are getting to the end of the road with our boys.... DS1 continued to be different/exceptionally bright, won various awards and scholarship prizes, now an Oxbridge student.... can't help but think this is because we did what we felt was best for him and did not blindly accept anything his junior schools recommended and fought his corner to have his academic as well as social needs taken care of.

DS3 is younger and more affected by his Asperger's, but is on track to do very well in his exams next May, but only a few months ago we had to challenge the school's plan to transfer him to out of the normal academic school (at age 14) timetable and into this scheme that they have in conjunction with a local college to do vocational subjects (golf course management, greenkeeping and so forth
When I met the Learning Support person to challenge this, it became clear within about 30 seconds that she had not even read his report card (sciences, computing, maths all very good marks, other subjects all goodish), and the decision was made because that's just what they do with the kids who are "different". I was then told well, he won't be able to get any learning support if he does academic courses!

Sorry, not meaning to hijack your thread OP, but I feel really strongly that kids with a disability (any disability!) who also happen to be academic have a real risk of being sidelined at school and not pushed to do their best academically because there is to much focus on the DISability and not enough on the ABILITY! Sadly I do think this is often down to ignorance/prejudice in people who should know better

Chandon at preschool, my ds1 was locked in the changing room (a large cupboard), every day for a couple of months :( on his own. He still remembers this and he's 18...... I'm sure it would have been the garden shed if they'd had one.
The vile woman who did this also used to snatch books from his hands because he should only be looking at the pictures and not reading the words!

Thread like these make me so

He's a boy, a boy who happens to also have HFA, but he's still a boy first. A boy who like every other child in the UK is entitled to state education.

It's not up to you to find and fund this. It's up to the LEA. They are responsible (and I'm pretty sure legally bound but do not quote me!) to provide somewhere suitable for him to be educated.

I fear whats happened here is that due to the term starting soon the school has been contacting and collecting information about the cohort from preschools etc. I suspect the nursery have mentioned things such as the security.

Instead of thinking - this boy is intelligent, he is able and endevours to seek out how things work. They have gone, shit, we have a boy with HFA who may be able to escape and 149 other pupils.

Shit, unprofessional and WRONG.

Could you seek out other schools in the area, both state and private sector, somewhere to suggest as a feasible alternative for your DS during the statementing process. Usually where the catchment school cannot meet the needs of a child a school will be stated n the statement and a place at that school will be offered. If its private with support the LEA should fund it - and will if you fight them.

(((hugs)))

Came here tonight on a wander around threads - but I had to reply. Scotchandwry - I agree with everything you've said. Everything on here resonates with my experiences on behalf of my son with ASD. He's 13 and doing well now; but the early days at school were a huge battle.
You have to be your son's greatest advocate - again, and again until you're totally confident with the system.

You don't want him at that school, do you? If your gut feeling is that it's wrong for him, then it is. It sounds as if they are running scared of him already - and he'll pick that up right away (even with poor social skills!) and you'll never trust them to get it right for him.
He's 'done' nursery - too bright to be there any longer, and he needs kids with good social skills to give him a good exemplar.
Try and find a school which looks forward to meeting his needs (withalovelyLSAlikeme!--) where they'll know to alleviate his stress by giving him a toolkit and old technology to dismantle!
Know that you're not alone - and all your hurt and fight on the way is worth it to have him happy in the long run.
Hugs, and good luck!

Scotch I don't mean to nitpick at your very heartfelt post but I would just sound a word of caution that if you can, think about moving somewhere with a very smally school (a village, where it's the only school!). isn't the answer for everyone. FWIW I think my DS was much more accepted at our massive inner-city school, where there were lots of kids with lots of issues and lots of funding and committed teachers trying to help, than he is in our tiny village school now where he sticks out like a sore thumb. Our tiny school's great reputation is built on its size and relatively high amount of resources, rather than them doing the right thing for every child, unfortunately.

Fellow battler , should not have to be this way tho', our kids will be fine but what about those who have parents who can't (or won't) be their child's advocate? I worry about those kids too....

wilsonFickett you make a valid point, I didn't mean it was the answer for everyone, more something worth thinking about - obviously it depends of the nature of the child's issues and also the ethos of the school - DB and SIL 2 DC are at a tiny (

I am really sorry to hear of your issues for your son.

Whilst the school has to take him, I do wonder if you could find a better one for him?
Are there any other local schools with a more compassionate staff who would not only do what they're supposed to do, but also do it willingly?

Thankyou all for your advice.

There isn't much chance of another school, I don't think. I am going to push for his attendance on a P/T basis at SCHOOL not nursery.

I am going to give the nursery notice today, so he leaves with his sister. If I have to re-register, then I will do that in September.

Thanks again.