To have commented in class about this bf dvd?

[mosschops30]

We had a fantastic talk today about BFI, very informative and some great info for us about weight gain in babies, supplementing feeding, attachment etc.

However at the end they showed a lovely dvd about newborns who crawl up the mother and latch on after birth, it was great to watch but ruined by the text over it showing babies from 'medicated' births not being able to do the same and saying women should be encouraged to have an unmedicated labour

it really annoyed me and i said to the lecturer that i hoped she didnt show it to pg mums as i felt it was critising those labours.
The lecturer was excellent and said its just to show how important skin to skin is and that you can still do this if not hours, even days later.

But i just thought the tone of the dvd was inappropriate. Some of my colleagues thought i was BU. challenging the dvd message

"Sometimes women need help in making the right decision for them when the mantra is entirely one sided. Can you really not see that."

Yes - and that help should come in the form of LISTENING and supporting her decisions. NOT advising a woman to ff in the face of bf problems - unless they're intractable, unless the baby is in danger of malnutrition or dehydration, or unless a woman has made it clear that she WANTS to ff!

"What I am saying, is that if it is proving so difficult, the pain and distress may not be worth it"

I repeat - nobody can tell you this. Only YOU can know if it's worth it FOR YOU!

It's really not for a health professional to say.

"So you are in effect saying that by not continuing to breast feed I might not have done my best for my child"

Well - who knows? It's not for me to say. Or for anyone to say actually. Only you can know, based on your knowledge of your child and your circumstances.

Just like I know that breastfeeding was best for me and my child.

"ands should not, under any circumstances, be made to feel they are failures because bf isn't working for them and their baby."

Well I think we can both agree on that.

It is incredible that 17yrs on someone can be made to feel bad about not bfeeding their baby! It really doesn't matter-I couldn't care how my mother fed me-there are many more important things.
Obviously the best of all worlds is to have a natural birth and to manage to successfully bfeed, but not everyone can do it and it is very damaging make a point that 'all babies' will do something. My baby wasn't remotely interested in crawling and latching on-(he never has been very bothered about food!). He didn't like some other things that apparently 'all babies' like. We are all different and babies are no exception. They shouldn't have to come out of the womb having to pass a test!!!

"As I have said childbirth and feeding are very small parts of motherhood."

But not so small that they haven't left you with a lingering sense of failure and anger.

Should add - I didn't have perfect or easy experiences of birth or breastfeeding either. But I look back on it all as such a thrilling time. The satisfaction I experienced from birthing and feeding my babies will be something I always remember and look back on with happiness. It's not an irrelevant or trivial thing to me. Hence I wouldn't tell anyone else that it's trivial and a mere blip along the road of motherhood.

Anyway - as your family is so brilliant and successful you can now revel in that.

My son will never get A*'s or go to Oxford, or go to the best school in England. Or be sociable. Because he's autistic. But both of us have blissful memories of his early life when we were close and when feeding gave us both so much simple pleasure.

I think you do have to accept that breastfeeding IS really important for some mums and some babies.

"it is very damaging make a point that 'all babies' will do something"

has anyone suggested that 'all' babies will do a breast crawl after birth?

"We are all different and babies are no exception"

Of course we're all different, but there are some normal newborn reflexes which are seen in babies, which are seen LESS SO in babies who are have opioids in their system at birth.

Dear god - can't believe that there is such an outpouring of crossness about a video which points this out, or that so many people would fall over themselves insisting that it really doesn't matter if babies are sedated at birth and that they don't breastfeed, even if there's clear evidence that it DOES sometimes impact on breastfeeding outcomes.

The most important thing is women's feelings about their births.

And I say that as someone who used pethidine and gave birth to a baby who was sedated and didn't breastfeed well. My feelings looking back on this aren't 'oh god, I feel so guilty!' My feelings are - I wish we could find a way of making this happen less often.

If some goes into breastfeeding with a half hearted attitude believing that they are going to fail then they WILL FAIL. Being optimistic about chances of sucess is essential whether its runing 5K, a job interview, childbirth or breastfeeding. I think that breastfeeding classes need to make women believe that breastfeeding is possible if they want to do it.

I was given the advice to have no bottles or formula in the house. I think it helped to understand that the few weeks the baby would feed non stop, but it would calm down. It helped to be told that if I got sore then there was support out there for me. In my area there is somewhere where you can get help with breastfeeding every day of the week within a 5 mile radius from a human being. Both health visitors and midwives are trained in breastfeeding and there are nct peer supporters who work alongside health professionals.

There has to be balance of being mindful about the feelings of those who have been unable to breastfeed and teaching mothers the PRACTICAL side of breastfeeding. I think that those with pychiartic issues surrounding breastfeeding need councelling and a breastfeeding class is not appriopiate for them.

Some people cannot drive, does that mean that no one should have driving lessons? Do people need to be told that they are likely to fail their driving test? Does realising that most people fail their driving test first time make someone feel better if they fail their driving test. Prehaps we should all walk so no one has the trauma of failing their driving test.

Biological nuturing/ breastcrawl works for some women. Surely women attending a breastfeeding class should be shown a range of approaches/ positions so that they can try out what suits them.

There is no harm in showing it-as long as it comes with a warning that if it doesn't happen you can still successfully bfeed.
I think that those who want to promote bfeeding would do better to listen to those who had trouble with it, rather than those who found it easy, and take their response from there.
Getting it from ones who were successful from the start is like the series of books 'computers for Dummies etc'-they are useless because they start in far too advanced a way-those who are real dummies could tell them that you actually need to start with locating the 'on' switch!

I believed it possible-I never had a bottle or formula in the house-it didn't make it easy!

shagmundfreud Thanks for sharing your thoughts and story. It's given a really balanced perspective to this thread. I absolutely agree with you.

I have to say that I completely agree with Shagmundfreud and ReallyTired.

There is no doubt that breast milk is the best nutrition for a baby and is superior to AF. That message has to be given to women, and it is. Of course there will be some women who either choose not to breast feed or find it so difficult that they decide on balance that they would rather use AF and enjoy their child's early months rather than battling with breastfeeding. That is absolutely fine and every woman has a right to make that decision. However, it is your decision to make and you need to accept that and not get upset when you are reminded that breast is best.

To use another example of public health messages, everyone knows that smoking is bad for your health but despite that message some people choose to smoke. Should we stop informing people of the danger of smoking just to spare their feelings? Similarly with obesity - it carries a health risk. Should we stop giving healthy weight and eating messages out in case obese people feel offended? No, of course not.

As with all these issues, there will of course be some children who do perfectly well on AF, have no health issues, high IQs etc. etc. But when we look at the bigger picture it is clear that exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months gives health benefits in the short and long term over AF.

I acknowledge that more support is required in order to help women achieve exclusive breastfeeding, if that is what they want. I do think that support has improved in recent years and as it becomes clearer just how superior breast milk is to AF more and more support is becoming available.

As for the biological nurturing video - why shouldn't it be shown? The message it is giving out is true and women need to know this. If it is not achieved it does not mean that your baby will be at a disadvantage as it can be achieved at any stage.

And just for the record, I had a dreadful time feeding my first born and gave up at 7 weeks, on the verge of having a breakdown. I had very little support and decided that enough was enough. However, that was the decision that I made and I am happy with my decision and see no reason why I should feel guilty about it or why others should tip toe around me when promoting breastfeeding, just to spare my feelings.

The point of the OP is not "is formula better" it is whether women should be told that there will be problems breastfeeding (or specifically biologically nurturing) if the birth is medicated (i.e. if they have pain relief or a c section).

As a number of people have stated it's perfectly possible to breastfeed following a medicated birth. I took a biological nurturing approach following my planned cs.

I'd be interested to know what evidence the video was based on.

I had a general anaesthetic with my DD. She was able to "navigate" her way to the breast at about 20 days old. The ability isn't restricted to very new newborns.
I agree with the OP that when women have to have anaesthesia /an "artifical birth" (like I had) then heaping on yet more guilt, esp if is due to false claims (like biological nursing is impossible following "unnatural" or "drugged-up" childbirth) is ludicrously unhelpful and jsut plain bitchy.

The science about breastcrawl is on this link.

breastcrawl.org/science.shtml

This method of initating breastfeeding was designed to help poor women in India who cannot afford medical support. It has saved lives in area where not breastfeeding is certain death for the baby.

Practical knowledge is the key to sucess. There is no point in discussing the merits of formula versus breastfeeding. If someone desires to breastfeed then strageries on how to get the baby to latch on is useful.

I agree with bumperella's post that breastcrawl does not have to be done on the day of birth. Most babies lose the reflexes at about 5 or 6 weeks old.

I think its best to encourage pregnant women to be optimistic. Mentioning that they may fail at breastfeeding or a traumatic birth doesn't help develop a postive mindset. I think its best to live in the present at not worry too much what tomorrow will bring. Indeed fear and anxiety can make childbirth more painful.

Prehaps we need to look at ways of making pregnant women feel confident in themselves generally. There are always parts of parenting that don't go plan

You're right schmee, the OP's point was not about whether BF or AF is best, but marriedinwhite and some others seemed to imply in their posts that they shouldn't be made to feel guilty about not breastfeeding.

This website www.biologicalnurturing.com/pages/publications.html gives some of the publications supporting Suzanne Colson's biological nurturing.

YANBU, I agree with everything you said. Some women might not be bothered by the message but then some might!

"YANBU, I agree with everything you said. Some women might not be bothered by the message but then some might!"

"You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time "

famous quote don't know by who!