To have commented in class about this bf dvd?

[mosschops30]

We had a fantastic talk today about BFI, very informative and some great info for us about weight gain in babies, supplementing feeding, attachment etc.

However at the end they showed a lovely dvd about newborns who crawl up the mother and latch on after birth, it was great to watch but ruined by the text over it showing babies from 'medicated' births not being able to do the same and saying women should be encouraged to have an unmedicated labour

it really annoyed me and i said to the lecturer that i hoped she didnt show it to pg mums as i felt it was critising those labours.
The lecturer was excellent and said its just to show how important skin to skin is and that you can still do this if not hours, even days later.

But i just thought the tone of the dvd was inappropriate. Some of my colleagues thought i was BU. challenging the dvd message

Thank you.

I had a horrible section and still managed to do the skin to skin crawly breast thing. Would have be harder to do if we had both been dead

That is a very important point, caerlaverock.

I had two gas n air births, but don't remember either of mine doing the crawl. I seem to remember trying to ram the nipple in their mouths.

At 7 months though, dd has developed Mr Tickle arms to ensure that the nipple is in her mouth at all possible times.

God the videos all blur a bit but BFI training is usually aimed at HCPs and the course is a bit pushed for time so some of the details get abbreviated into soundbites. The info sounds too simplistic- the breast crawl/BN thing does happen most easily when the birth has been unassisted. Just pethidine use reduces the number of babies feeding quickly post delivery despite BN, more drugs and interventions take numbers of successful early feeds lower still. There are still babies in any group who feed easily/have little interest.

The message should, as the trainer said, be a positive as even if there is a delay in behalf of mum or baby you can get back to where you were, the moment hasn't been missed whatever your birth. It can be used to address the misconception that delivery does determine bf chances.

just out of interest as I don't have children...how does a newborn crawl anywhere?! Are they strong enough? Genuine question. Does it actually mean they move from one place to the other or does 'crawl' mean...something else?

In DD's case she sort of wriggled, rather than true crawling. Imagine a cross between a tiny puppy and an alligator. Although, obviously cuter.

it is a reflex, they kind of draw their legs up under them and push, they wouldnt get very far but can seek out the breast, it is quite amazing.

I only had gas and air and Ds didn't do this at all. I was told to try it as he wouldn't latch and just cried and cried. So I did the skin to skin in bed, and there was no crawling to the breast. Just lots more screaming.

I don't think you were BU - I think mothers should be told in antenatal classes that c-sections needn't, by themselves, prevent you breast feeding.

A c-section is pretty much as medicated a birth as you can get, and I am very glad I didn't hear before I had my first emergency section the old wives tale that you can't BF after a c-section (esp a messy one), as luckily it didn't occur to me not to, and despite a rubbish birth my DC1 knew what she was doing somehow and, with me quite out of it, latched on when put next to me by the midwife. I was rushed back into theatre shortly after, and didn't see her for 5 hours, but we still breast fed with a (relative) lack of problems considering she was DC1. I later discovered other ladies from my anti-natal class hadn't even tried to BF despite intending to, because they had c-sections.

Absolutely respect anyone's right to feed their baby from breast or bottle as they chose, but it is a pity some people are given the impression a medicated birth means they just won't be able to BF.

Some, the baby kind of wriggles themselves to the nipple. It can take as long as an hour for them to do so. Their first latch is usually optimal this way and sets the path for future feeds.

somedayma if you look on youtube for 'breastfeeding, breastcrawl' you can find some videos of this.

OP, I think YAB a bit U. Babies from medicated births are less likely to be able to do this and it is only right that women should be able to make an informed choice. Surely they weren't going to show women a DVD saying 'women should be discouraged from having a medicated birth'?

FWIW, I deliberately had a pain relief free labour to have as much chance of DD doing this and getting breastfeeding off to a good start. Sadly, due to the fact that she had to have blood samples to check for infection as soon as she was born, the fact she was born screaming and didn't stop for an hour after she was born and I was conscious of the fact she had to feed as soon as possible really due to me having had insulin controlled gestational diabetes it just didn't happen and I decided to encourage her to feed.

I don't understand what's wrong with encouraging women to have an unmedicated labour? Surely that's not done if intervention is necessary anyway do that rules out women who need drugs. Encouraging is just that, not forcing. The antithesis is what seems to happen in a lot of American births. Go in as soon as labour starts, lie down, epidural asap, baby. Of course it's great that there is that option should you need/want it but I really can't see the harm in having a chat about alternatives.

I had epidural and EMCS and DD did that crawl thing when I had my first skin to skin with her. The midwife was quite (not sure why) and commented on it to other midwife (in a nice way).

I had epidural and DS done that too. You weren't bu.

"OP, I think YAB a bit U. Babies from medicated births are less likely to be able to do this"

Why is this a problem though?
I had never heard of the crawling thing, had two CS, with both opened gown and had them in nappy in delivery room and put them to breast and they fed.

This sounds like another really sort of thing that women are told that makes them feel inadequate. Sort of like, just putting them to the breast and feeding them isn't proper, they have to do the crawling thing? It doesn't make any sense to me.

DS did this, was a CS
apparently I did this too, I was born by CS

neither my mum or myself could have "avoided' a medical birth.. well not without some of us not existing any more! so I agree that the way it was put is not really helpful! YANBU

I mean the crawling thing sounds super-sweet and all.... but there's nothing wrong with picking them up (or someone else picking them up) and just feeding them surely!!!

I imagine the crawling reflex is there for if the mother was exhausted / inexperienced / alone / dead when we were more animal style than now? Don't know anything about it so happy to learn on this one

the crawling was useful for my mother as she was too weak to pick me up and feed me, had drips in both arms and a bit was out of it

it leads on to biological nurturing which is a really useful way to feed (to at least know about for future reference)

YANBU. Let me guess... NCT?

its a great thing to show, shitty to make it fit an agenda though!

Someone else should have been utilising BF surely monkeymoma. Not just leave the newborn to it and hope for the best.

I expect the biological nurturing thing is useful if you BF and cosleep and don't have leakage issues? The idea of a young baby being able to feed without waking the mother is great!

I agree with Sardine, both of mine were sections and both times either dh or midwife picked them up and popped them on the breast. Successfully fed both of them til 14 months. I get really annoyed when people say that you can't BF after a section. There are plenty of reasons why BF does't work out for people, but the simple physical fact of having a section is not one.

I fed both til 14 months too.

biological nurturing helps prevent mastitis and helps increase supply as the baby uses both hands to stimulate the breast, also helps babies to feed if they have stiff necks after traumatic births, helps mums who have back ache from the MW taught positions, and helps stress levels if you have a baby that latches on and off and on and off (Cause YOU don't have to latch it back on each time, it latches itself back on - no probs!). Its apparently safer if you are tired and have big breasts as you wont slump on the baby