To have commented in class about this bf dvd?

[mosschops30]

We had a fantastic talk today about BFI, very informative and some great info for us about weight gain in babies, supplementing feeding, attachment etc.

However at the end they showed a lovely dvd about newborns who crawl up the mother and latch on after birth, it was great to watch but ruined by the text over it showing babies from 'medicated' births not being able to do the same and saying women should be encouraged to have an unmedicated labour

it really annoyed me and i said to the lecturer that i hoped she didnt show it to pg mums as i felt it was critising those labours.
The lecturer was excellent and said its just to show how important skin to skin is and that you can still do this if not hours, even days later.

But i just thought the tone of the dvd was inappropriate. Some of my colleagues thought i was BU. challenging the dvd message

My baby crawled up me and latched on whilst in the operating theatre while they were still sewing me up after my planned c-section. Then fed for two hours straight. Despite the fact I had an eyeball itching amount of drugs. And despite the fact they insisted on taking her away for a clean up before giving her to me (which I wasn't happy about). YANBU.

I had a 2 day labour and EMCS - no drugs other than epidural for CS as the fuckers don't give them in Tenerife.

It was 4 houes before I saw DS and had skin to skin.

He crawled up the bed - it was getting him off I struggled with.

YANBU btw.

Well, managed skin to skin wonderfully with DD2 and failed to breast feed all three of my DCs. Do I feel shame, do I F**k?

I has a perfect labour and birth with DD1. Tried so hard to breast feed for 2 weeks and she kept fighting. I cried and she cried and my sis and her DS3 came to visit and she asked why I was putting myself through that hell and gave me a bottle. I regret that two weeks with us both crying!

DD2, born 3 weeks early. Lovely time, she did crawl to my breast, she was born by EMCS but I thought it would be fine, we both loved BF!

She became more and more poorly through the day and was ripped from my breast(or that is how it felt) when she was less than 7 hours old!

I do understand why, but it hurt!!

DS was born, EMCS under anaesthetic, 10lb 5oz. I was taken to ITU. He went to maternity!

Next day I demanded to see him, he was brought over. I was taken to him hours later. He needed feeding. I asked if I could try Bf and was told no chance. He is too big, I am too weak!!

Now have an amazing bond will all three, they are all healthy too!! It doesn't matter!

YANBU I am sick of women being made to feel guilty at every turn. DS did this despite an EMCS. We'd been dead without the section then he definitly wouldn't have fed.

Ah I see. That is quite amazing! Will YouTube it

How mean, baby's just been through a traumatic experience and you out lunch a foot out of reach and make them crawl to it you are terrible terrible people.

I was a bit about the term biological nurturing being bandied about, I hate labels but I'm interested in the tired/bog boobs thing as that is my current worry as dd2 is 3 weeks and will not be put down ever!

Jesus look at those typos in my defende really really fecking tired

How bizarre that having a baby crawl up you would be seen as something to fail or succeed at. There are plenty of people around to pick the baby up and put it towards the breast. Surely a fun interesting novelty if the baby does do that, but certainly nothing that anyone would actually care about in the long run.

Maybe I move in the wrong circles but this kind of thing would be a passing footnote in the birth experience, rather than anything to get overly bothered about.

I wouldn't show it to anyone. I had just assumed that bfeeding would come naturally to me and my baby and it didn't to either, that sort of thing would have made me feel a complete failure and I may even have given up. As it was the staff, thankfully, took time to teach us both and then it was fine.

I think they are just stating the facts. As a new mother I would have wanted to know that as it would have helped me make any decisions. Information is power and all that.

I am very much in favour of people having the actual facts about things like BFing and birth choices. They may be sensitive subjects but people really should know about possible downsides in order to make fully-informed choices.

BUT we were shown this video in my NCT refresher course (moved to new area and wanted to meet people) at the BFing session, and it hugely upset one lady who had had an extremely traumatic and near fatal first birth and was being set up for a very medicalised/probable c-section second time round due to the risks of the problems recurring. The video was presented in quite a negative way with stats about "x% of babies born in x manner never achieve self-latching" and things like that. I think this message could have been presented far more positively - "x percent of babies who are born without x type of intervention might demonstrate the desire to self-latch"

In the end the other lady had a natural, rapid delivery and all was well, but the video just added to her negative feelings about her impending birth.

I have had two rapid deliveries, both times without any pain relief or intervention whatsoever. My two should have been prime candidates for breast-crawling and self-latching by all accounts. Neither baby showed any wish to breast-crawl or self-latch and DS2 (BFing did not go well with DS1) has only self-latched a handful of times in the last 5 1/2 months and that has been when he was already in the vicinity of the nipple.

It is certainly an amazing thing to see, but it doesn't seem to be something that all babies will do, even following a completely natural delivery, and I would be a bit apprehensive about this becoming widely presented as something that should accompany the "ideal" birth. It's certainly not the be-all and end-all and I would have thought that its strongest purpose would be as a useful indicator to HCPs and researchers about the effect of various birth methods/pain relief methods on babies, rather than as something that should be aspired to by mothers.

Biological/laid-back nurturing, however, is something that it would be nice to see more information about. It didn't work for us in the early days but when DS2 started having better head control he sometimes fed better with me laying back.

I had a two day long induction. On the second day I had four shots of pethidine, the last one was fairly close to the end (was refused epidural). I had to have medicated labour, I defy anyone to lie on a bed hooked up to a drip and monitor for all those hours, unable to move, with no pain relief.

Anyway, it did make my baby a bit drowsy but ten weeks later he is breastfeeding just fine all day long so no harm done really.

I wish I had been told more about laid back positions, my back is coping with the long bf sessions much more now I am reclining on my sofa with my feet up on the coffee table.

I would like to see more emphasis on finding a position, any position, that works for you. The traditional, named nursing positions seem to be emphasised, but they never worked for us. I feed in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways, but I almost always need to have one foot up on something to use my knee to wedge DS2 in place. One BFing counsellor commented on this being a very natural and instinctive thing that lots of women do, but I have never seen it in the info that is available.

Now see why dont they make a much better dvd of women who have had pethidine, elcs, emcs etc and have successfully breastfed, surely that woud send a more positive message that anyone can try, regardless if birth, if thats how you want to feed your baby

Giving birth and breastfeeding is a very small part of being a mother and I have always thought It's a great shame the health professionals involved don't put more emphasis on that. It would go a long way to women feeling they can succeed.

How many surveys are there when the dc are fine young men and women, hard working, loving, secure and independent at 18 that focus on whether they were delivered naturally and breastfed successfully? No amount of breast milk is a substitute for love.

"There are plenty of people around to pick the baby up and put it towards the breast"

wow what hospital did you give birth in? sounds good! lucky you! unfortunately I don't think that's typical

I'm sure it's Pethadine linked. I don't know how other drugs would effect a baby, but was warned about Pethadine being a drug that could effect baby after birth, as it made them drowsy.
Damn mw was right though!

I think its okay to say that the %s of babies able to do it after medical births is less so long as they emphasis that its still worth trying as many do and having to have a medical birth doesn't mean you are automatically depriving your LO of BFing etc

I had pethidine, G&A, an epidural, a general anaesthetic, antibiotics, adrenaline, piriton, paracetamol, a CS, and DS had internal monitoring. I BF for 13 months. Don't feel its pointless to try if you wanted to BF but ended up with a medical birth!

welll... I had pethidine, epidural, enough gas and air to send me into orbit and a forceps delivery and dd still came and fed straight away so yanbu

Totally 100% agree with marriedinwhite.

I know the DVD you mean, when I show it in antenatal class I only show the baby who successfully crawls and attaches to the breast and we talk about benefits of skin to skin, how it is important for it to be continuous (eg that separation makes it difficult for the baby to self attach) and how babies can do this for several weeks (or if you believe Christina Smillie several months)
I do say that babies who have been exposed to lots of medication in labour particularly opiate drugs may not be able to do this straight away but that doesn't matter because we can use the other way (ie positioning and attachment) instead

However I think it is a bit unfair to criticise the DVD itself, it is not designed for use with mothers but with health care professionals and is clearly the visual version of a study from the Lancet, no propaganda intended just presents their findings.
I find it interesting that so many midwives are stunned babies can do this and how much impact separating mother and baby for weighing has on their ability to do it. It is great when they come running up a week later to tell me they tried it and it worked, recently one of the midwives helped a mother get her twins skin to skin in theatre and was so excited they both self attached.
This is a great (if super expensive) DVD for health professionals I just don't use it in its entirety with mothers.

I had very easy, completely natural, very quick births and it certainly didn't come naturally to me -or any of my DCs. It seems a worrying DVD best kept away from mothers IMO- if you want successful, long term bfeeding.

Sheesh, shoot the messenger why don't you?

I had a highly medicated birth with dd, which resulted in a very sleepy baby and weeks of breastfeeding hell.

If I had known then what I know now about pethidine I would have said 'NO THANKS', especially as it's pretty ineffectual as an analgesic, which is what it's sold to you as.

If your baby is born sedated then it is going to have SOME sort of impact on its normal newborn reflexes.

And I really can't get my head around women feeling all guilty about choices which they make in labour which are the result of them being at the end of their tether, or the result in them being misled (by omission usually) about the possible side effects and efficacy of what the drugs they're being offered.

I don't feel at all guilty, just pissed off that I was so strongly encouraged to take pethidine, and not supported to overcome the problems it caused afterwards.

"How many surveys are there when the dc are fine young men and women, hard working, loving, secure and independent at 18 that focus on whether they were delivered naturally and breastfed successfully? No amount of breast milk is a substitute for love."

Sigh. So defeatist. If breastfeeding was intrinsically unachievable for many women I could understand this argument, but it's not. Some simple changes could revolutionise the breastfeeding experience for the very large group of women who struggle unnecessarily in the UK. But if people keep trivialising it as a minor issue then we might as well not bother trying.