to think that gender selection should be legalised in the uk?

[ChocolateBiscuitCake]

I have three glorious boys. I would love to have a girl as well.

I really don't understand why PGD for gender selection is illegal in the UK. I completely accept that it should not be funded through the nhs, but can not see why couples can not pay privately.

You are not choosing eye colour etc, simply the gender of your child to balance your family dynamic.

If ivf couples are allowed to pick/choose/freeze embryos, why is PGD illegal?

Aibu to think that it should be legal in this country? I would not be trying to create a 'superior race', just balance our family with a girl - a daughter for me and DH and a sister for my sons.

Like the OP, I have three beautiful healthy sons, and am pg with DC4. If I could choose, I would slightly prefer a daughter, just because it would be interesting to see whether it is different to having my sons. Probably not much.

I think PGD should be legal, just because I think people should be free as far as possible to make their own decisions, rather than rely on the state to tell them what to do. I agree that it isn't particularly desirable though, and I wouldn't have it myself. It would feel very disrespectful to undertake IVF purely to select gender when some of my friends have had to endure the cost and the heartache of IVF to have a child at all.

Some of the comments on this thread make my skin crawl.

I understand where the op is coming from but don't agree with gender selection unless it is for medical reasons. I have a DD after three DS. My DD has completed my family. It is lovely being able to experience the joy of bringing up a girl as well as boys. Perhaps she will be a tomboy, will hate shopping, dislike pink etc but it doesn't matter because she is my DD with her own personality and preferences.

Sometimes I think a little compassion is needed. I wish you all the very best op and if you do have a 4th child I hope you have your DD. Don't let people make you feel guilty for wanting a DD. They're your feelings.

By the way I love all my children equally and although I'm delighted to have my DD boys are wonderful!

I still think it's wrong to select your baby's gender based on anything other than medical reasons, but why has the OP gone straight to PGD? Why not good old sperm-sorting? TRILLS, both can be used together actually, sperm sort first, then fertilise and genetic test each embryo.

I have 1ds and 2dd's. I honestly cannot understand why people prefer one sex over the other. Can somebody explain it to me please?

I'm getting increasingly frustrated at today's society where some people seem to think they should have everything they want.

OP, you have been fortunate enough to have 3 babies and yet youre still not happy! It seriously fucked up.

Awhistlingwoman i am so sorry for the loss of your daughter. Gosh how well-intended but thoughtless comments must hurt you.

I was offered a gendet scan and a termination if i had a girl because of my husbands condition.

we declined both and had a son first time. The secong pg we found out i was having a girl. I wasnt bothered i one way or the other i wanted to know if i could you sons old clothes or if it was going to cost me more money!

I have 3 boys and so if I was to have had a 4th then a girl would have been nice BUT I would only have done it on the full understanding that it was just as likely to be a boy.If I couldn't have been excited about the birth of another baby, who turned out to be a boy, then I wouldn't have gone ahead.

I disagree about girl preference thing, everyone in my family was delighted we had a boy last time, they're delighted we're having a boy this time. I had about 5 microseconds of disappointment number 2 wasn't a girl because I thought one of each would be 'nice' (for want of a better word) but now just want another healthy, happy baby. We're probably going to stop at 2 so I'll never have a daughter but it doesn't matter.

And I don't understand why having a daughter means you won't be a mil or did I skim that a bit quickly & misread it?

Of course the 'wrong' gender isn't the same as a genetic abnormality. But, it's still within the same ball park of 'meddling' with nature, with introducing an element of control or choice over one's reproduction. Plenty of people thought that IVF was 'playing God' and were very against it back in the late 1970s. You'd be hard-pressed to find that reaction now.

If you choose to take the pill, choose when and how to conceive, choose whether to see a midwife and have check-ups, choose whether to have screening and then, if god forbid, something is wrong and a mother chooses to terminate a pregnancy or chooses to continue with it, then arguably you are 'meddling' with nature. Women had very little choice about reproduction until very recently. Now there are more choices.

I cannot see why someone choosing to have a child of one sex or another at the embryonic stage is wrong.

The termination would be at 20+ weeks.

If you were that bothered just dont have kids or be gratful for what you have.

Limeleaf I disagree with this opinion you gave:

"I think PGD should be legal, just because I think people should be free as far as possible to make their own decisions, rather than rely on the state to tell them what to do"

because in this case the decision doesn't just affect the people making it, it affects the child they're conceiving and society as a whole. In that case I think it is the responsibility of the state to step in and legislate.

Would you have the same opinion if the couple were selecting for skin colour or academic ability?

Freckled - it's wrong because you are opening the floodgates for couples to select for other characteristics. People have already said on this thread "Well, couples choose not to have a child with a disability so..." If you can select for gender, then what's to stop people from selecting for other characteristics? The line has to be drawn somewhere.

It puzzles me that if I were to make a comment about 'I think boys need........' I would get attacked as 'why are boys a special case-girls can do the same/need the same'- which would lead you to suppose that gender didn't matter, but clearly it does.

Interesting point Cailin, because no I wouldn't have the same opinion - selecting for skin colour or academic ability is a very unsettling thought.

Just because something should be discouraged doesn't necessarily mean it requires legislation though. If only a very few people did this, I'm not sure how it would affect society as a whole?

How would such a choice affect the child? For better or worse? Not sure how I'd feel if I knew my parents chose me over a boy. I quite like knowing what my name would have been (Henry).

But op, couples going through IVF to have a child do that as a last resort to just have a child - it is not the same as choosing the gender of a baby. You're lucky that your body is working properly for you to concieve and hold a pregnancy. I think people should be thankful for the children they have.

The systematic abortion/murder of girls in China has led to a real imbalance in the proportion of women in the population. Leave it to nature - slightly more boys conceived because they are not as robust.

Cailin - I can see the line of reasoning you're taking, but I suppose, at the stage that science is at, there isn't the ability (AFAIK) to select for characteristics such as IQ, hair type, athletic prowess etc. So it's somewhat irrelevant to say the line must be drawn, if selection bases on other characteristics is just not possible because science hasn't yet advanced enough to do so. If it does become so advanced, then cross that bridge as and when. But to me, if one can choose pre-natal screening, can choose to reduce multiple pregnancies (triplets to singleton, quads to twins) for lifestyle reasons, why can't someone choose the gender of a much-wanted child?

YABU because it is impossible to predict the long term consequences of gender selection. There are major issues in countries like China where boys have been preferred over girls, leading to huge 'excess' numbers of young men who cannot find women to marry. Because of this they have a very extended 'youth' which has the potential to lead to major social unrest in the future.

There were a few articles about this a number of years ago, can't find the one I wanted but this one gives the jist.

I do have sympathy for you OP but the trouble is when we make decisions based on individual reasons you have to multiply those decisions by populations as a whole before you can start measuring impact.

I'm getting increasingly frustrated at today's society where some people seem to think they should have everything they want.

Well said.

Limeleaf - how do you know only very few people would do it though? And should it be the preserve of the rich to control their families?

Freckled - it's a question of ethics and the motivation for the choice. Children are aborted due to disabilities or due to multiple pregnancies because the parents honestly feel they wouldn't cope with those prospects. The motivation is entirely different than that of a parent who preselects a child before they're even conceived simply on the basis of preference. It subtly says something about the worth of a child of the opposite gender as it implies that even though a girl or boy would be healthy and cared for they wouldn't be loved or wanted simply because of their gender. Do you see what I'm getting at?

There are cpeople I feel sympathy for on this thread. Funnily enough, the one with three healthy dcs isn't one of them.

I really don't feel that prenatal screening to check for genetic disorders is in the same league.

Accepting that I would give birth to a child who might live a short and painful life is not comparable to accepting that I might have to give birth to a healthy boy as opposed to the girl that I might have preferred

As to selective reduction, I would be interested to know how many of these are carried out purely for lifestyle reasons as they are, obviously, many, many health risks to both the mother and the babies in a triplet or quad pregnancy.

Thank you limeleaf

chocolate IVF couples generally don't pick/choose their embryos to be frozen or used.
That's the embryologists job.
Please don't simplify IVF it is actually a very emotionally , physically and financially exhausting process.