to think that gender selection should be legalised in the uk?

[ChocolateBiscuitCake]

I have three glorious boys. I would love to have a girl as well.

I really don't understand why PGD for gender selection is illegal in the UK. I completely accept that it should not be funded through the nhs, but can not see why couples can not pay privately.

You are not choosing eye colour etc, simply the gender of your child to balance your family dynamic.

If ivf couples are allowed to pick/choose/freeze embryos, why is PGD illegal?

Aibu to think that it should be legal in this country? I would not be trying to create a 'superior race', just balance our family with a girl - a daughter for me and DH and a sister for my sons.

I have the 'perfect' family a boy and a girl. Lots of shallow people used to harp on at me how 'lucky' l was - one of each, a pigeon pair etc etc. Must admit it genuinely used to baffle me and l only ever thought l was 'lucky' because l had two children, not because l had one of each.
I'll never forget a liitle boys face one day

itdoesnthurt I'm so sorry for the loss of your child and I wish for the very best for your pregnancy.

I had two DDs but one of my little girls passed away. I then had my DS1. And you'd be surprised how many people told me that I had a 'pigeon pair' and how lucky I was to have one of each. Sigh. And if they had just totally forgotten that I had, once upon a time, had a slightly less desirably balanced family. Sigh again.

Some people can't have any children when they would dearly love a child of either sex. Some of us lose children that we love dearly. And I don't think that choosing the sex of your child is any different to choosing their eye colour. It doesn't guarantee anything about personality or the contribution that this person will make to the 'family dynamic.' What if they aren't a typical girl? What if your daughter grows up and decides she prefers to live as a man?! Would you be wanting your money back?! In my opinion I think you should just thank your lucky stars for your three glorious boys OP.

Happiness isnt thinking what you would love to have - it's loving what you have .

Twee or not, it's very true. Especially when it comes to children. Love what you have.

Statistics for England and Wales here if you're interested Whenshewasbad (BTW, my mum used to say that rhyme about me )

I always thought I wouldn't know what to do with a boy, and therefore hoped for a girl. Got DS . I can't imagine loving any other child as much and while I very occasionally wonder what it would be like to have a DD too, DS is likely to be our only child.

I do agree with all who have said that there are so many uncertainties when deciding to have a child, obsessing over, and seeking to control, one detail seems a bit daft. DH and I took the view that we shouldn't have children if we weren't prepared to love and do our best for whatever child arrived (we have disability in the family and understand the extra commitment that can mean for parents).

I think this sort of thread is really hurtful to those struggling to conceive.

It is hurtful for a lot of people

Yes it is.

I really, really do not understand caring whether your child is a boy or a girl.

I just don't understand what difference it makes.

I have done IVF and there was no picking and choosing. I was surprised because I assumed that embryos were at least screened for genetic disorders but they weren't. In my experience it was a hugely stressful and traumatic experience, despite it's success in my case. As much as I want another child I will never put myself through it again. I can't imagine why anyone who can create a baby naturally would want to do IVF at all!

fullofregret's posts are so odd. Anti-male society? Not bloody likely. Celebrities have more girls? Show me some actual evidence for that. In fact, all your posts are weird half-baked theories. I feel sorry for your son.

YABU.

As others have said, in some parts of the world, the desire for boy babies has skewed the gender balance quite away from the natural ratio of about 103 boys being born for every 100 girls. Especially now that ultrasounds can be used to determine a child's gender before it's born.

Here's a link to an article on the subject: www.economist.com/node/15636231

I think it's dangerous to assume that parents in the UK would use sex selection simply to 'balance', and that they would pick roughly equal numbers of girls and boys.

I also disagree with the point of view that parents in the west prefer girls. Sure, a lot of posters here may prefer girls, but most people posting here are women.

I work in a male dominated industry, and the overwhelming majority of my male colleagues expecting their first babies have said that they would prefer a boy (as did DH). The only exceptions to that have been colleagues whose wives have had multiple miscarriages or have had difficulty conceiving.
None of my colleagues have complained about having a daughter after the baby arrives BTW.

IME, men are more likely to want a son, and women are more likely to want a daughter, and the reason some people think most parents in the west prefer girls is because women tend to be more vocal about their preferences.

I think the only valid reason to choose your child's sex is if you or your DH can pass on a genetic disease that only affects girls or only affects boys.

I really really wanted a boy. I was wrong, my DD is my world and I could never imagine anything else.

I had worked with kids for 10 years and always worked better with boys so I assumed thats how it would work with my own kids. I was just wrong and I'm glad I wasn't allowed to select gender.

I understand wanting a baby of a particular sex when you live in that naive world before you have a baby but I can't understand how you can still feel like it afterwards. I now officially don't give a hoot if my next DC is a boy or a girl.

I don't have time to be a self absorbed knob anymore

Thank you ViolaCrayola - one of the things I love about mumsnet is there is always someone who says what you want to say but puts it better.

YABU. Couples who freeze embryos following IVF will be doing so because they'd like a sibling for their child later, or they'd like embryos ready for the next cycle if this one doesn't work, or perhaps the woman is just about to have a full hysterectomy due to cancer and hopes a surrogate will carry the embryos later. This is very different to sex selection.

Also if couples "pick/choose" embryos this will be to avoid a medical issue. Again very different from sex selection (unless it's to avoid an illness which only affects one sex). I object to your term "pick/choose" as "picking and choosing" usually means people are being unnecessarily fussy, and this is definitely not the case with trying to avoid a medical problem for their future child.

I think if you're lucky enough to have a child, then you should take whatever sex you're given and get on with it. It's not mail order, sale or return....

If you're serious why don't you go abroad for treatment? I'm pretty sure if you research you will find clinics that will offer this service.

If you think going abroad is too expensive / too much hassle then you need to consider whether IVF is actually for you - as hassle, stress and expense are basically the 3 words I would use to describe it.

Gender disappointment is a very taboo subject in the UK. Many people don't understand why someone is a disappointed with a healthy beautiful baby. However people are disappointed in their children for all kinds of irrational reasons. I think that those with gender disappointment need councelling rather than gender selection.

Picking an embryo who isn't going to die a horrible death at an early age is not the same as choose a girl or boy.

I have one boy and one girl and I love them both. My little girl is a bit of a tom boy and doesn't do pink. Prehaps its not right for me to say gender selection is wrong when I have never experienced gender disappointment.

I still think it's wrong to select your baby's gender based on anything other than medical reasons, but why has the OP gone straight to PGD? Why not good old sperm-sorting?

"why has the OP gone straight to PGD? Why not good old sperm-sorting?"

Sperm sorting is not 100% accurate and its illegal to abort on the basis of sex.

Unfortunately I think it will happen, whether or not it is illegal. You can't stop science from moving on. And I do think there is a preference towards girls in the West (or in Britain, at least). There are far more prospects in life for women nowadays than men.

It's illegal to abort on the basis of sex? Since when? Surely you could just have an abortion anyway and not say why?

"There are far more prospects in life for women nowadays than men."

Really?

"There are far more prospects in life for women nowadays than men."

What on Earth are you talking about?!

YABU. Totally.

YANBU - gender selection is legal in the United States and I don't believe this has led to any kind of imbalance of genders (though am happy for someone to correct me if they have access to stats).

I understand people saying that if you decide to have a child, you take a risk and get what you're given. Having said that, things aren't so black-and-white, because anyone that decides to have any kind of pre-natal screening with a view to determining abnormalities is automatically putting themselves in a position where they may not accept what they're given. I have absolutely no experience of anyone in that situation and do not pretend to understand the anguish of discovering pre-natal issues. However, I think it's disingenuous to claim that you must accept the gender of a child if you don't have to accept other elements that a child might have (e.g. genetic disorder, cleft palate etc).

I think, too, there is a difference between aborting children of an 'unwanted' gender and 'creating' children of a wanted gender. The latter would normally be undertaken where certain genders had already been born and the opposite was wanted. Alternatively, if one could guarantee that a first born child would be male (in India, say), then if the next child was female, perhaps they would be kept and given birth to, rather than aborted, since a male heir had already been produced?

Barbarianmum - yes, a HISTORY of repression based on sex, gender, race, religion and class discrimination - hopefully we are indeed more civilised and less discriminatory here, now, than in the past. There is more work to be done, of course.

There are still plenty of regimes in the world where, for example being gay, or female, or the wrong religion put your actual life at risk - am I not allowed to suggest MY country is more civilized than those countries?

I think one of the biggest differences between "the West" and most of these other countries is the autonomy of the individual - here, the INDIVIDUAL is seen as the controller of their own choice, master of their own destiny, they control the state (through democracy)...... in other places? State/country/leaders are seen as the entities which control individuals, who have little power or control.

"anyone that decides to have any kind of pre-natal screening with a view to determining abnormalities is automatically putting themselves in a position where they may not accept what they're given"

And the "wrong" gender is, of course, the same thing as a genetic abnormality that will lead to a short and painful life