to think that gender selection should be legalised in the uk?

[ChocolateBiscuitCake]

I have three glorious boys. I would love to have a girl as well.

I really don't understand why PGD for gender selection is illegal in the UK. I completely accept that it should not be funded through the nhs, but can not see why couples can not pay privately.

You are not choosing eye colour etc, simply the gender of your child to balance your family dynamic.

If ivf couples are allowed to pick/choose/freeze embryos, why is PGD illegal?

Aibu to think that it should be legal in this country? I would not be trying to create a 'superior race', just balance our family with a girl - a daughter for me and DH and a sister for my sons.

yes if there is a medical need

I expect many people, given the choice, would choose 'a pigeon pair', which would become rather boring. It's not just what the parents want - it's lovely for children to have siblings of the same sex. I always yearned for a sister and remember being bitterly disappointed when my brother was born!

A lot of parents have in mind that they want one sex or another before the baby is born, but instantly fall in love with waht they get and wouldn't have it any other way. Anyone who doesn't love their baby is probably suffering from PND or has other issues, as this thread demonstrates.

Regarding gender preferences, I have noticed that it is more fashionable to want girls now, whereas when my DC were born (13 -19 years ago), I would have said there was a slight preference for boys. However, it is ultimately absurd to prefer one sex over the other. As others have said, a child is a blessing - the fact that it is the second or third of the same sex doesn't make it less of a blessing.

However, i do understand that someone with 2 or 3 of the same sex might want to have a different flavour next time.

I think people are over analysing this. Having had 3 boys and quite fancying a gilr by the 3rd I would doubt if anyone really is disappointed when they get the same gender again. Its just a preference for some,it makes anice change,its nice to choose a name,buy different clothes than you have done previously and just to experience a different gender. I dont think it runs any deeper.

I also agree with the second coming that many people who "dont get it" are people with one of each. People with all the same can be understandably defensive,I was too. If anyone expressed a preference it made me angry as it felt as if it was suggesting my family wasnt good enough.

Those with one of each,can i ask were you not secretly really chuffed to get a different sex to the one you already had? Was you dh,or your parents?

I thoroughly enjoyed raising my boys (mostly) but equally I am loving my girls,I love buying dresses and little shoes and hair clips for them. The best for me is tiny frilly swimsuits.

I even enjoyed chatting to dd1 about periods the other day and we had a conversation yesterday about how some women can be quite opressed by their partners. I like going to the cinema to watch girly films after 15 yrs of Ninja films or giant turtles.

If that sounds superficial thats because it is!
Its that simple for me. It makes a nice change.

Nobody in their right mind could ever be disappointed with their children but they may have a preference.

ledkr no i agree that many people would of course like to parent both sexes and yes after 4 boys i was thrilled to get a girl, would have been equally thrilled with a boy but like you am enjoying buying girly clothes and shoes and my dd's hair is now long enough for clips and pig tails etc, its lovely, purely because its a change after 4 boys, and would i imagine be the same with boys clothes had i had 4 girls and then a boy.

but this poster is considering the gender selection route, that is a lot more than thinking it would be nice to have the other sex, which is a lot different from a preference iyswim? tbh i didnt have a preference, i assumed no 5 would be another boy and didnt really believe the scan telling me she was a girl.

to actively be considering sex selection is very different from that i think.

Being a parent means putting our wants and needs to one side. We need to sleep, a newborn needs to feed - we get up. Same applies to wanting / "needing" your child to be a certain gender. Your "needs" don't come into it - but the need for your baby to be loved and accepted unconditionally does.

Anyone remember the OBEM episode when parents of 4(?) DDs and 1DS have another DD and how disappointed they were and then phoned their DS to apologise ? Juxtaposed to them were the couple who against the odds had conceived - (mother had a brain injury) - and the first thing their newborn DD heard was "I love you, I love you" . Some people don't know how lucky they are.

5 mad, i also assumed dd would be a boy but did hope for a girl,did you really go in for your 5th baby with not one single hope for a pink one?

I still think if someone feels like we did and has the money then why not go for it? If they then dislike what they get male or female then their issues run far deeper and they need to seek support.

no i didnt really hope for a pink one, i hoped for an easy pregnancy and birth as i had had with the other 4, she was a bit of a bonus baby, we wanted 4 and then ummed and ahhed and werent as careful as we should have been, so not totally planned ifyswim? and i just totally assumed she would be a boy, i guess i thought it would be nice to have a girl but i really wasnt fussed at all, had a boys name picked out etc and even once i was told it was a girl at two scans still didnt buy anything girly really.

when she was born i said 'is it alright' and then 'is it really a girl?' i love having a girl but i actualy feel hugely protective over my boys as i get a lot of comments and assumptions that we 'kept going to get a girl' and that 'she must be our favourite' and how happy we must be to finally have a girl yada yada and that makes me feel bad for my boys as that is not how it is at all.

i just feel incredibly lucky and blessed (in a non religious sense) to have been lucky enough to get pregnant easily and have easy pregnancies, births, healthy children etc, which is why i donated my eggs this week to give someone else that chance.

i just think if you are wanting to actively choose the sex and are willing to pay to do so then imo you need to question why you are having a child in the first place, they are individuals and you dont choose their personality or their looks or their interests etc, you get what you get and yes they are a blessing and not a designer accessory. and yes i agree with you someone so fixated on one sex needs to get help and support for that.

Its really interesting that we dont quite agree even in similar circumstances. I admit that I often felt that something was sad about me never having a daughter,it wasnt a massive problem more a little niggle and a feeling I was missing out on something iyswim. I had cancer after ds3 so i was lucky to conceive again and there was a 10 yr age gap so I was so pleased it would have not mattered what I had.

Maybe for some people it is more important though and I just dont see it as a problem to gender select as long as you pay for it yourself and are prepared for the "wrong" outcome.

I also feel protective over my big boys too,but they were all so delighted with their little sisters that it didnt seem an issue.

Dh and I only have dd2 together and he has loads of comments from his male friends about not having a boy! Very annoying.

fullofregrets Fri 22-Jun-12 14:18:09
"Past abuse, issues with husband (worried son might turn out like him) identify with girls better, don't want to be a mil, have a great relationship with my mom and would like the chance for the same."

This post sums up to me why gender selection is a bad idea.

Because it is based on the whole idea that there are things you have a right to expect from a child of X gender.

What if the poor girl turns out to resemble the abusive ex?

What is she is totally different from her mother and they do not have a great relationship?

What if she gets married and the poster finds herself with MIL problems after all.

As long as we are not allowed to select, we are forced to accept that actually we have no control over these matters: that a child might turn out to be absolutely anyone, that it is up to them and not to us who they are.

I love my mother dearly but I have always felt slightly uncomfortable with her strongly marked feelings that I have got to understand her in a special way because I am her daughter. The truth is, that I am probably the one out of her children who is most unlike her- but I have felt I had to live up to these expectations because I was the girl. I can't imagine that would have been any easier if she had been allowed to choose me specially with that goal in sight.

but as you say you would have been pleased whatever boy or girl and i can relate to a niggle that you mention, i dont know i just always knew i wanted a large family and yet at the same time as having my children i had friends goign through ivf, miscarriages, still birth etc, not all close friends but it brought home to me the reality of how VERY lucky i am to conceive easily and have easy pregnancies and it also made me think that each time i had another (esp after the first 2) that maybe i was 'pushing my luck' somehow, which is crazy i know, but i def worried more in each pregnancy rather than less, i knew more of what could go wrong and felt that maybe instead of 'chancing my luck' i should be grateful for what i already had, but at the same time i really wanted a big family and maybe that is selfish as well? and to then take that selfishness one step further to actively attempt to get a child of a specific gender? it seems wrong to me.

and yes my boys dote on their little sister, they love her to bits and dont seem bothered by any comments, its me that inwardly seethes when people say things, my children know they are all loved equally and valued for the individual they are, regardless of gender.

i guess to me it just seems a step too far, if you are wanting one sex more than the other that you are prepared to pay and go through the invasive treatment (and having just donated eggs it IS invasive) i would be question why i wanted children and why only the one gender that i was so prepared to put myself through that, esp if as in the ops case she obviously can conceive naturally. its one thing to do it if you have to, its your only choice to have a child, but just to get the right sex?!! and then what next, its a very slippery slope i feel.

I don't agree with gender selection. You might get a son who is effeminate or gay (not calling all gay men effeminate by the way!) or a daughter who was a tomboy or a lesbian (again not all lesbians are tomboys or vice versa)... or heaven forbid, a transgender child who wanted to change sexes! Accept our children for who they are. When I had DS, his gender was really the least of my troubles! (absent dickhead father/being a single parent etc).

I disagree with gender selection unless for serious genetic conditions.

I think that people have a rose-tinted stereotypical view of what it may be like to have a girl after 2 or more boys or vice versa. I don't get the 'balance the dynamic' thing and agree that it would be the thin edge of a very disagreeable wedge.

From my POV I had a girl after 2 boys; on the outside lovely family dynamics the reality is that she wasn't the 'perfect girl', has had some serious health issues that threw the dynamic into absolute chaos. So I'd say - be careful what you wish for and get your priorities right. Have a baby to have just that, a baby, whatever gender comes along.

I really admire women who donate eggs, what a precious gift to give. I would love to do it, I am too scared as due to abuse I'm not good with any procedures in that area (prescribed diazepam for a smear test etc). I only have 2 DCs and can't afford more for the moment at least do I wish I could donate as I too feel very lucky to have conceived easily.

I also think in this country where you can't get late abortion (apart from for health I assume?) anyone who is concerned about sex should find out at the sex at 20wks. A friend of mine had 3 girls where they found out each time. She then had a fourth and made it quite clear they thought it was the boy they desperately wanted, they were totally convinced. And of course, it was a girl. Surely it would've been better to find out - if 'disappointment' is going to happen, then it can be confronted earlier before the baby is born.

Having said that I do agree that most people who don't get it have one of each - I do. I may have felt different if I had both the same and I do think it would've been harder to say "ok let's stop at two". If we have another baby one day I will probably not find out, but again, only because I am 'lucky' to have one of each already. Of course I hope either way I would have learnt to be happy and not wanted to mess with nature.

I had experienced mc and a prem birth though and concieved after chemo so i was aware of how absolutlely lucky i was,and i had difficult pregnancies and 4 c sections. I think that the girls made me so happy that I dont want to deprive anyone else of that experience.

Dd2 is a big chunky tom boy with a gruff voice and the strength of a grown man.

Ds 3 was a ballet dancer,loves shopping and fashion and is a really good friend to me now he is 22.

They are still the gender that they are though and bring a different parenting experience I feel.

Either way I have never ever forgotten how lucky and priveledged i have been in the fertility stakes. Even today when ive been up since 4am .

I also felt that I was pushing it having no 5 especially at 43 and when she was born with a cleft i felt my luck had ran out but she is fine now thank goodness.

fuzpig I am also like that with procedures.I go to pieces for a smear test and have had a dodgy one recently so if i need further treatment will have to have a general anesthetic i think

Oh that sucks ledkr I hope it all goes ok with the tests. I was 25 in December - had the diazepam prescribed ages ago but am now 6 months late for the smear. Obviously have to time it with periods and also with work as I've been told I won't even be fit for work the next day. I'm a procrastinator at the best of times!

Did you ever have a sweep for an overdue baby? I cried in mine so much they almost cancelled it. Didn't bloody work either. The only time I've been ok with internal exams is in full blown labour when I'm high on gas and air!

sorry for hijack

Fuzzpig - I have 2 dds and can honestly say I don't feel the need for a pigeon pair or after having a girl first the desperate desire for a boy second. When pregnant with dd2 I just wanted a second child, I'd always wanted an even number of children (2 or 4) but didnt care about the sex. Finances and lifestyle choice mean we're sticking at 2 and I don't feel I've missed out by not having a boy, if things change and we're in a position to have more then again I honestly would just be after a baby.

fuzzpig No they would never get near me. They once tried to break my waters but the Dr said I nearly snapped off his fingers (stealth boast) haha.

I would like a night time smear clinic where I could go after a few drinks and lay there in gay abandon whilst they smear away.

I can't see any harm if parents who already have one or more children of one sex were allowed to select the sex of their next child.

Many parents want to experience parenting both sexes, and in our very gender stereotyped society the experience of bringing up a daughter is very different from bringing up a son.

I 've never forgotten my DH kept saying to his son and now DW when she was expecting - 'l hope it's a girl', 'little sister for xxxxx(DS's DD1 from a previous relationship and my DHs apple of his eye)',' little girls are lovely/cleverer/much cuter blah blah blah'
He always has said that apart from his own (2 boys whom he adores) he just cant bond with other peoples little boys (even if they were his own DGCs). I kept warning him not to keep saying it as will cause bad feeling if they have a boy etc but he just used to shrug and say he would still love it and anyway he cant help feeling like that and he was just expressing an opinion .

Trouble is, his DSs never forgotten it either or his D-I-L, - yeah you've guessed it they had a boy. It's always there under the surface when they visit etc even though we treat both DGCs exactly the same. But he cant 'un-say' it now can he.

Sorry if anyones head exploded reading that - made it a bit complicated. I am DHs 2nd DW and his son is my DSS and his two children a girl from a prev. relationship and the little boy who is subject of above post are my DHS DGCs but my step DGCs really to be precise.

Sorry probably made it worse that - l've lost miself now!

...and I btw love them both equally and even equally with my own biological DGCs.

DH is a lovely bloke really just brutally honest and subtle as a sledgehammer at times

Many parents want to experience parenting both sexes,

Why on earth do people think it is about them?
You might want to experience both sexes, but tough you are not out shopping! Luckily nature leaves your wants out of it!
You can experience both-adopt an older child-if it really matters.