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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think if you want to work in silence, don't go to a coffee shop

777 replies

whimsicalname · 22/06/2012 13:31

I was in a chain coffee shop this morning, across the road from our city museum, waiting with my 2 year old for it to open.

I was drinking my coffee, he sat opposite me eating raisins. Other people were working, or chatting, or reading the paper. You know, doing normal coffee shop stuff.

After a while, the boy gets up to wander around. He's not running, he's not sticky, he's just mingling. He walked towards a man with a laptop. Stood nearby him, and then said hello. Man looked up at me, and said 'do you mind, I'm concentrating here' in a really unpleasant way.

If I'd been with a couple of friends chatting we'd have made a lot more noise but I can't help but feel he probably wouldn't have told us off!

We were across the road from the university library (which has some open access areas) and all of 200m away from the city central library, so plenty of options for quiet. Blimey, he could even have sat in the cathedral for some quiet contemplation.

AIBU or was he?

OP posts:
Thistledew · 22/06/2012 15:44

At what age will you start teaching your child that they will be considered odd if they walk about coffee shops trying to engage complete strangers in conversation?

DamselInTornDress · 22/06/2012 15:45

But we know nothing of this bloke. Like another posted mentioned, we can assume anything about him. He may have aspergers for all we know. But here we judge him because he did not interact with a child. He wasn't rude. He didn't swear or glare.

domesticgodless · 22/06/2012 15:45

Pictish, if the little 'darling' was that much of a horror why didn't you just take him outside your tent and tell him kindly but firmly to go back to his mum as you had other things to do? That would have been far less nasty than what you wrote about him.

Why did you carry on providing the 'entertainment' you so bitterly resented?

He is 5...you are an adult. Make your own space.

Psammead · 22/06/2012 15:46

I don't think children generally needto be taught that, Thistle. They just become more socially aware with time.

manicbmc · 22/06/2012 15:47

She had made her own space and it was invaded by a kid because the parents weren't parenting their child.

She had made that very clear but it was ignored. I don't think Pictish was unreasonable to expect her wishes to be considered.

HipHopOpotomus · 22/06/2012 15:47

"What is rude is his obvious sneering declaration (agreed to shamefully by all your lot) that OP was inconveniencing him by allowing her ghastly offspring to approach his table and (gasp) SPEAK."

domesticgoddess if you get all the above from this;
"Man looked up at me, and said 'do you mind, I'm concentrating here' in a really unpleasant way."

(last bit of which is entirely subjective) then I imagine you must find the world to be an extremely rude place. Or perhaps you over dramatise everything?

formerdiva · 22/06/2012 15:49

Ummm - do so few MNers really like children? Am I weird for finding confident, sociable toddlers endearing? I think he was a misery and so are half the people on this thread

domesticgodless · 22/06/2012 15:51

Oddly, Thistledew, children generally pick this up by themselves. It's called social development.

Tbh though when my kids were small I was careful to keep them away from adult males on their own. Not because of stranger danger but because of the general grumpy sense of entitlement to dominate public space with their precious laptops and loud mobile phone conversations. Now it appears I should have kept my ghastly little ogres away from adult females as well. Luckily it was only ever middle aged men who were vilely rude to their faces (at one point my DS then aged 4 was referred to as 'that' by a man in a train carriage...for talking to ME, not to said man, in what must have been a disturbingly CHILDLIKE manner. And no, it was not the quiet coach).

I find it amazing and hilarious how said men, having issued their complaint about your appallingly childlike child, will then look at you in expectation that a maternal gag of some sort will now be applied. On public transport and in the odd cafe/restaurant I think a lot of them would have happily watched me restrain my DSs bodily and hiss in their faces to shut up continually, rather than have them behave like, er, children.

Strange isn't it, how we tolerate restaurant tables, streets and pubs full of drunk, roaring and offensive adults every day of the week...but when a child acts like a child, it's appalling isn't it and THE MOTHER MUST DO SOMETHING.

We have our priorities totally fucked up in Britain.

ViolaCrayola · 22/06/2012 15:51

I think the point here is - why have public spaces at all? Why doesn't the man just buy a nice coffee machine and work on his laptop at home? If that isn't possible or convenient, then, as OP said, he could choose to work in a library.

If the man has chosen a cafe, then surely he knows that this choice must carry the 'risk' that he may, at some stage, be presented with the opportunity to interact with another human being. Yes, the man has the right not to interact at length with the toddler if he doesn't want to. But the toddler also has a right to be there, and to speak (as domesticgodless wrote), and therefore the man shouldn't be rude. As others have said, he could easily have said 'hello', and then turned back to his computer.

There is a somewhat separate point about a general level of friendliness in society that I, personally, think is important. I actually think it's nice when people (of all ages!) randomly strike up conversations with each other. Not just nice, but essential IMHO, unless we are going to become the sealed pod people mentioned earlier! Of course, people don't have to, but there are many things we can choose to do even though we don't have to, aren't there?

Even (shock, horror) some things we might do because we know they are right, even though we may not feel like doing them... Which brings me back to domestic godless's excellent point about the oddly childish attitude of those who claim to be anti (other people's) children.

domesticgodless · 22/06/2012 15:53

no HipHop, I don't dramatise everything...for instance it would entirely pass me by if a whole busload of toddlers tried to start a conversation with me in a coffee shop. If I didn't like it I'd pick up the laptop and leave. I just strongly dislike people who dislike children and their apologists.

ViolaCrayola · 22/06/2012 15:55

X post!

domesticgodless · 22/06/2012 15:55

Viola!! you are forgetting the god given adult right to personal space in order to shout things like 'yeah well keep me in the loop then eh?' repeatedly down mobile phones unassailed by frightening children who want to TALK!! :d

pictish · 22/06/2012 15:55

domestic - we did. Several times.
He is a very indulged little boy who expects to get his own way. After I (very nicely) chucked him out for about the fifth time in two hours, he sulked majorly and it ended up with his mother having stern words with me about our eldest son ignoring him and hurting his feelings.
Our son, who is 10, was in no way nasty or even a little offhand with the little boy - he simply prefrred the company of the older children, and having got pissed off with being followed everywhere, started to politely avoid him.

My friend obviously felt it was our privilege to entertain her boy as was his want, and we had no right to object to his constant intrusion.

Psammead · 22/06/2012 15:57

I live in a country where people delight in having small children around, and unfriendliness is the odd behaviour. It seems to be vice versa in Britain.

All the child did was say hello!

FormerlyTitledUntidy · 22/06/2012 15:57

OP YABU
But I don't think you really want to hear that or that your toddler should not be "mingling" (ffs!) in a coffee shop.

domesticgodless · 22/06/2012 15:58

omg pictish in that case I do have some sympathy. The mother had no right to lecture you on 'including' her boy. Bizarre and aggressive imho.

However... is it really the child's fault? Sounds like the problem really was coming from her in that case. I think I would probably have felt sorry for him, but her attitude to him would have angered me. I would actually have got in a row with her about it I think! (probably thus ruining holiday in a different way Hmm)

lisaro · 22/06/2012 15:58

Hmm, wonder if there's a man out there saying 'If you want to let your child wander and bother other people then you shouldn't be in a coffee shop'.

ViolaCrayola · 22/06/2012 15:58

Which country Psammead (feel free to ignore nosy question)?

MrsHelsBels74 · 22/06/2012 15:59

I love my toddler to bits but to be honest I really struggle with other people's children...I have no idea what to say to them, and end up sounding totally insincere.

In this case I think the man could have been a bit nicer, but I think everyone has the right to drink in a cafe without being interrupted. I don't let my toddler wander about on his own & we only ever approach tables if we're given encouragement from the people sitting there.

Though at the same time I find it weird if my son smiles or waves at someone & they don't respond.

DamselInTornDress · 22/06/2012 15:59

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to engage with OPC. That doesn't mean they dislike children. They may just value there short free time at hand. I'm not an apologist. I face facts. The bloke wasn't rude though he wasn't friendly either. And it's never to early for the child to learn that not everyone will find him enthralling or entertaining. That's life.

Have you seen the other thread with the bully kids and the bus monitor?

HipHopOpotomus · 22/06/2012 15:59

My toddler would behave the same in a coffee shop - but I would not sulk and declare those who do not find her as engaging and as charming as I do, let alone someone who just wants a bit of space, RUDE!

It's a completely OTT & self centred reaction

ViolaCrayola · 22/06/2012 16:00

Why not Formerly? Genuine question. Safety factors (already ruled out by OP) aside.

WithACherryOnTop · 22/06/2012 16:00

Why should he have to buy a bloody coffee machine? He is allowed out in public you know,even if he doesn't want to interact with OPC. There's no need for him to leave when he can just say that he'd rather not talk.

And as for the 'Britain is hell,and everyone in Europe loves children BS that inevitably crops up on these thread.It's really getting old,and it's certainly not as black and white as it's painted.

The majority of venom on this thread seems to becoming from those who think that if you don't worship children that you shouldn't be allowed to leave the house.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 22/06/2012 16:00

Another YABU

I actually go to to a coffee shop with a book, once in a while, to take a break from my own children. I want to sit quietly and not interact with anyone because so much of my time is taken with interacting with people.

I am sure your son is lovely but that still doesn't mean that people in the coffee shop want to talk to him.

If I am out with my own children in a coffee shop I would be happy if a 2 year old came to join us but if I am on my own I'd quite like it to stay that way.

pictish · 22/06/2012 16:02

domestic - I can assure you I dealt with it all very diplomatically and diffused the situation well. This confrontation took place on the third day....we had endured and tried to discourage the little boy's insistance on being around our son at all times for two days by this point - so it had got to the point where we wished he would just piss off I'm afraid.