How can Prince William campaign against rhino poaching when he happily kills other animals for sport?

[Hammy02]

I genuinely can't get my head around this. Am I missing something?

As a fox hunter you can just push your horse to the extreme, make a dogs dinner of half the country side and let your hounds terrorise countless foxes, cats and other assorted innocent wildlife. But hey as along as you are having fun then thats ok.

I'malways fascinated by the fox hunter's ability to believe two completely contradictory things simultaneously. Depending on context, either the Hunt fulfils a necessary service by culling foxes or don't worry, we practically never kill.

My pack has always been very efficient at controlling foxes, but the philosophical point is that my best day of the season may have involved the fox getting away. The steak definitely didnt get away!

balotelli I have never pushed my horse to the extreme, horses love hunting more than anything. When they tire, I take them home. Its a no brainer to do that for safety, as well as the horses health as a tired horse is more likely to fall at a fence. My old hunter is 22 and in good health, no joint problems at all- I hunted her since she was 4. Hunting takes place in the Winter, the ground is wet and does get churned up, but because it is so wet it will normally repair itself by Spring. The vast majority of farmers allow hunting on their land or the sport would cease tomorrow.

"Sport" - ha! Hunting is barbaric and cruel. That's why the Hunting Act was passed.

What does eating meat have to do with this debate? I'm a vegan, although that isn't relevant I suppose.

The Hunting Act was passed because Tony Blair was trying to appease his party by thowing it a cliched, left wing bone. Nothing to do with animal welfare. If it's cruel why do lots of vets, farmers, grooms and dog rescuers that I know hunt? They just have a different opinion to you, that's all. Hunting is a much better way to kill foxes then the other methods of shooting, traps etc.

"The Hunting Act was passed because Tony Blair was trying to appease his party by thowing it a cliched, left wing bone"

I agree. Doesn't mean it wasn't a good thing, though!

Ha, ha, ha, haaaa! Yeah. It was all Tony Blair. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cub hunting. The hunting of new-born cubbs in August, literatlly digging them out of their holes with spades, with vixens desperate and unable to protect their young. That's all part of the sport too?

Hunting is a tiny past-time supported by a perverted minority.

With over 150 convictions to date, the Hunting Act is here to stay. 75% of the UK populations are firmly behind it too. :)

This thread is insane.

OP - there is an incredibly obvious difference between hunting an endangered species and hunting deer, boar and the like. One is a species which is about to die out and the other is, in most instances about pests which need managing.

If deer aren't managed, they will eventually over populate the area they have chosen to live in. This means there will not be enough food to sustain them and the weak and vulnerable - ie young, sick and old will die a miserable death. Disease is more likely to take hold too. Deer stalkers are skilled marksman - capable of shooting three successive shots within a 10cm radius over 100m and by law must use a rifle of specific power. Deer don't suffer and don't know what's hit them.

Illegal stalking is a completely different this and is absolutely and completely wrong.

Pheasants are bred for sport, there's no getting away from it. They are hatched and raised by gamekeepers and then let out into the countryside to just be pheasants. They're not native, but then neither are chickens. They are provided with feeding stations so stay roughly in the area. Then on a random day, when they're happily flapping around the countryside, they get shot; they have no idea at all what's coming. And then picked up by skilled teams and distributed for eating.

Chickens also end up on our plates, but have nowhere near as happy a life. Reared in sheds, packed closely together, often standing in piles of their own shit. Yes, there are free range and organic birds which are reared in better conditions but ALL of them are killed mechanically having been herded into holding pens. There's no way they aren't stressed before they die.v v

I know which bird I would rather be.

And I don't actually know why killing birds for sport is reprehensible though. Why is it better to factory farm and produce meat in very unnatural and often stressful, vile conditions than it is to just knock an unsuspecting happy, wild bird out of the sky?

I have never, ever been on a shoot (and I have been on many) where birds are not taken for consumption. Not matter where it is, nor how many types of bird are shot. I'd be interested to know which actual shoots this happens on.

Haha the convictions are actually nearly all for poachers and hare coursers; they would have been prosecuted under the old pre-Hunting Act legislation anyway! The Hunting Act is a massive FAIL, I have had many of my best days since the ban :-)

If the Hunting Act is a fail, why is the pro-Hunt lobby so determined for repeal?

Spoiling all their sordid fun, isn't it?

Evidence-gathering by the Police and the public is on the increase and more and more convictions will be made.

In the meantime, the Countryside Alliance can continue to pour its funds down the drain. :)

Actually Boden, there is a lot of debate about the importance of repeal. I am in favour of repeal and have had to persuade many hunting friends that it would be worth fighting for. I think it should be repealed for the principle that there is nothing wrong with hunting, it is a tradition to be very proud of and people should not think it is illegal. Also, if it is not repealed it would be easier for a future government to tighten the Act if they wanted to (though I think its unlikely they would bother)

Pony you do talk typical 'foxhunter' bollocks. Since the ban came in the number of foxes has not exploded and caused 'ecological' disaster as the pro lobby said it would.

Having lived in rural bucks for many years most farmers I knew hated the hunts and banned them from their land a ban which most arrogant snotty hunts ignored. Most farmers encourage foxes on their land as they keep the vermin down, rats, rabbits etc etc.

I have seen first hand the damage done to the land as well as the injuries caused to the horses. Yes you might be a thoughtful and careful hunter but mosr arent and their horses are mere pieces of meat that let them express their blood lust.

There is no sensible argument to repeal the hunting ban and that is why Cameron and his upper class toffs have doen bugger all about it. they know that the vast majority of the british public are in favour of keeping the ban.

I'd ban all animal farming but thats foe another thread.

As much as I think hunting your own food is fine, whether that's 'farming' pheasants or shooting rabbits and pigeons I don't agree with Fox hunting with dogs. If you are a poultry farmer for example and you have a fox on your land that is picking off your birds then I have less of a problem with going out and killing them
instantly with a gun. Hunting foxes with dogs is cruel as it is drawn out and the ox is terrified. if you like the chase then use the dogs for a drag hunt.

PonyofDoom: "I think it should be repealed for the principle that there is nothing wrong with hunting, it is a tradition to be very proud of and people should not think it is illegal."

Dream world. At least 75% of the UK population feel that hunting SHOULD be banned. Fact. People DO think it is illegal and worse still people DO think it's cruel, distasteful and uncivilised. Whether the Act is repealed or not (which of course it won't be) it won't change public opinion. Fortunately the UK population has more sense and decency that a tiny minority of freaks who kill animals for fun.

balotelli its definitely not me talking bollocks! I hunt in Bucks and you need around 90% of the farmers to allow hunting, otherwise you just can't cross the land and keep in touch with hounds. In a day's hunting you can cover a huge area. The vast majority of farmers DO allow hunting, whatever you say. I am a farmer and come from that community; there are very few 'anti' farmers (I do know a few, they are friends) but their views are respected. Of course damage does occur to land, I have crashed through a few fences myself- but it gets fixed free for the farmers by the hunt and if a hunt member does something bad the hunt Master has to go round and grovel/cough up. The horses aren't 'meat' to 99.9% of followers, they are much loved; you always get the odd idiot of course, but its quite normal for hunt horses to still be hunting at age 20+ because its less harsh on them than, say, showjumping which can be hard on the joints. Hunting only takes place in the Winter when the ground is usually soft, plus hunters tend to get chucked out in the summer so they have months of rest. As I said before if you thrash your knackered horse you will end up having a nasty fall. Hunters have a better life than many/most horses IMHO. Bronze you are wrong on two counts. Firstly shooting isn't generally a good/clean way to kill a fox unless you have the right calibre rifle, are a very good marksman and have a fox in the open, in an area safe for shooting (no footpaths etc). As most landowners will have a 12 bore shotgun or unsuitable rifle and foxes are nocturnal and creep about in undergrowth, shooting is far from ideal and often leads to a slow death. With hound sports, a fox is either killed instantly or escapes unharmed. I say this as someone who shoots and hunts. Secondly, hunted foxes are for much of the chase a very long way from the hounds, in their own territory and confident of escape. If you watch a hunted fox you will often see them stop for a scratch or sniff- they are not terrified for most of the hunt. Also, you say that hunting for food is fine; well hunting is about protecting lambs & poultry from predation so it comes to the same thing.

Boden, the stats have said all manner of things on the hunting issue over the years as I am sure you know, it depends dramatically on the question asked etc. The CA got the polls turned about at one point, so there were more pros. Public opinion on hanging has never translated into legislation! In the end, it is those who are affected by hunting whose opinion should be heard, the farmers and landowners, grooms and hunt servants. Anyway I would rather be in a minority of one and be right!

The point made by Seeker up-thread about the supposed inconsistency about hunting misses the point that hunting is an effective way of controlling fox populations. Since wolves became extinct foxes have had no natural predators. Fox hunting mimics natural predation. Generally a fit fox will get away and an unfit one won't. Hunting helps to disperse fox populations and is better for the species than indiscriminate culling.

That said, I think drag hunting is as much fun, but farmers are less keen on drag hunts crossing their land because it doesn't have the benefits for them that fox hunting does.

Hear hear. Also drag hunting is inevitably more about galloping & jumping every big hedge going than about hound work, so it inevitably tends to be for big, fit thoroughbreds and psycho riders and less for the OAPs and hairy cobs! I didn't mention the benefits that hunting has for collecting sick/dead animals for farmers. Last year the hunt shot and removed an incurably lame 20+ year old cow for me, she was too old to enter the food chain. I was very grateful.

Mmm headlice on toast - yum.

what a ridiculous comparison

^ I know that doesn't make any sense does it, - I was reading page 1 when I posted.

i'll get my coat

that's when i left the thread Fenton

laughing my murderous head (lice) off

I like to kill them with my own fingernails [evil]

Or cause slow painful death by suffocation by conditioner [cackle]

I am still talking about headlice btw, not foxes or Rhinos obv.

maybe because he's a hypocritical wanker?

Surely not!