to judge these parents at a wedding?

[villagegossip]

Went to the evening do of a friend's wedding this weekend. Chatting at the bar with DP to some people and a young couple came over to the people standing next to us.

They had a little boy with them about 4 yo and a TINY baby in a carrycot.

They were attracting a lot of attetion as the baby was so little and were loving telling people that he should've been born that day but was in fact 3 weeks prem.

So thinking they had come to say hi to the married couple and maybe have a drink or two, told them how gorgeous he was and went to get a seat.

They proceeded to sit at the next table and get shitfaced

Now, i'm not an old fudder but the disco was banging and there were strobe lights everywhere. The dad kept lifting him out of the carrycot to pass him around their mates for a cuddle.

Poor little chap was all curled into himself with screwed up face and clenched hands and feet like he was trying to hide

It just really upset me that he was being passed around in a really loud, bright place, to people that had been outside fagging it minutes before? and prob didn't wash their hands

Really had to bite my tongue - their other little boy spent the last 3 hours asleep on a bench before they got up and left at around 1.30am.

So AIBU to think they should have left baby with someone elsewhere if they were so determined to stay out all night getting trashed?

I don't think anyone would say that a loud disco is the best environment for a tiny baby. It may be lovely for the parents to be out enjoying themselves but, and call me old fashioned for this if you will, I think the tiny baby should take priority. Every time.

I'm interested in the very different attitudes between the UK and where I grew up/spent lots of time- Spain and Mexico.
I'll first say that yes, two parents absolutely shitfaced in charge of any child is a no no. But objecting to a party or even going out with young babies, I find that a bit ...weird.
I was 10 weeks premature (in Mexico) and as soon I was out of hospital, I was at every family/neighbourhood gathering being passed around and cooed over. (Again no drunk parents although they did have one or two I'm sure).
My DS went to his grandad's 65th Birthday Party when he was 3 weeks old. He slept through most of it while we had a lovely time getting out of the house for a change.
Why babies and young kids shouldn't attend social gatherings, I don't understand. Of course, if the hosts state they want no kids then fair enough. But I think the earlier they get used to strangers, friends and the outside world, the better. Babies aren't made to sit in a cot in a quiet room.

I forgot to say, in the UK in general, there does seem to be an attitude that taking a young baby out to a social gathering/party, especially in the evening, is irresponsible and verging or abusive. I encountered this a number of times when taking my DS out when he was little. I, and many other countries in the world, have no problem with it. (Provided a parent or other responsible adult is sober).

Similar experience to MixedBerries, here. Agree.

Combineharvester while i'm sorry for your loss I think your being too touchy regarding the definition of prematurity which after all is just medical terminology. Nobody is suggesting that there's no difference between a baby born at 25 weeks to one born at 36+6 weeks but they would both be medically defined as premature.

A pregnancy that suddenly takes a turn for the worse with early labour/birth is traumatic for any women regardless of the outcome and is not something that i'd be trying to insinuiate as being more or less deserving to use the terminology 'premature'. As you'vebeentangoed explained in her post even medical experts can differ over the assignation of the term 'premature'

I don't think it's the social gathering that is the problem, it's the loud music, strobes and drunkeness.

MixedBerries i remember one of my cousins not bringing the baby at a wedding (in Spain) and everybody said that was 'out of order'

Back to OP: passing the baby around to family is fine imo, but both parents getting drunk is not. Are you sure they did? Maybe their family/friends took over? As for the baby's body language i think you are reading too much there.

Very loud music is not ideal for a newborn though.

you are right fragola of course people can take babies out these parents seemed a bit feckless with their baby and passing baby about which seemed to upset the OP I wouldve been a bit miffed to if i had seen it ,

I think one person's 'shit faced' is another person's 'tipsy'.

That's why I'm always reluctant to judge on threads like this because you never know whether the OP is exaggerating or just has a different idea of what shit faced is.

If you are genuinely saying that both parents were drunk out of their heads in charge of a small baby and a 4yr old child, then you should have called the Police.

There's two arguments here aren't there? Firstly were the being unreasonable taking a newborn to a wedding. No, I don't think so. DS was born at 38 weeks and I took him to a wedding when he was four weeks old. I was bfing so couldn't leave him with anyone else. He slept the whole time.

Secondly were they unreasonable to both get steaming drunk? yes, I think so. I had a couple of glasses of fizz that night but nothing more. Dh got drunk, fair dos, he was the best man, his best friend was getting married. But I decided on this occasion (and because I was bfing) that I'd be the responsible parent.

I don't think you are being unreasonable either. Mine are older now, 13,11 and 5 nearly and we still do the one of us will drive thing so that only one of us has a drink (I usually drive mind but tbh i am going off it anyway)

I was at a wedding about 5 years ago and the mother of a baby (about 8 months old) was so drunk on the dancefloor she almost dropped the baby and would have if my MIL hadnt caught her!

Awful.

YANBU

Don't be sorry bakingaddict.

I am merely trying to explain why a 37 week baby should not be described as premature either in medical terminology or in language used by 'ordinary' people (non-medical professionals).

Going into labour at 38 weeks should not be entirely unexpected, I would have thought? And therefore, all other things being equal, giving birth at 38 weeks would not, in and of itself, be traumatic due to it being 'early'?

It is not about being 'deserving', it is about being an attention-seeking idiot.

Or maybe this couple with a young child & newborn who perhaps have ahd a bit of a tough few weeks (maybe) because the baby was a few weeks early used the opportunity to introduced him to his loving extended family!
Maybe, just maybe the parents werent both shitfaced, maybe they were just enjoying themselves!!
Babies are part of the wider circle of family & friends, disco's, late nights & cuddles really wont hurt.
Just parental choice to take the children to a family gathering

If however the parents were so falling down drunk that they could not be responsible then obviously that is dangerous & just wrong

YY @ WorraLiberty.

Erk I'm going to my friends wedding in two weeks with dd1 (2.5) and dd2 who will be nearly 4 weeks, and was a week early. Feel a bit now. Won't be drinking as ebf and dh doesn't drink but still :(

Took her out to John Lewis a couple of days ago and got a "you're out already!?" from some older women in a lift, felt terrible but I needed a nursing bra FFS!

DS was born at 38 weeks last September and we took him out to introduce him to all our friends at happy hour when he was a week old and handed him around to everyone and we're perfectly responsible parents.

Having said all that, we live in a hot climate where it's very easy to take new babies out and about and we took him out everywhere with us for the most part (including social gatherings) so I think yabu about that but not about the drinking part, especially if they were getting really shitfaced. Nothing wrong with a drink or two at a special occasion with kids/babies but not to the point of inebriation.

I do not get why people think you shouldn't take babies out, surely its normal especially during the day time and if you have school age children already. I had to do the school runs from day 1 after having DS2 pretty much and we went out in the evening after a couple of weeks, we actually took DS1 out for a curry at 3 weeks (he didn't eat much of course), he was fine, he slept, no one was smiking and no one got hammered.

I prefer to leave them at home for weddings etc now they are a bit older but as tiny babies it is quite easy really to take them out.

yanbu - poor baby - I would have judged as you did and said nothing being not my place - selfish parents!

ps could 3 weeks prem mean born at 34weeks?

I would have judged, due to the heavy drinking. Someone needs to be sober and in control at all times with a baby.

FWIW my daughter was 6 Weeks early and I don't class her as "premature" really as she relatively few issues and a very short hospital stay.

To be premature means not ready and so a premature baby would need a lot of help to survive.

accountantsrule I don't get it either. Are we supposed to sit at home for 6 months not daring to leave the house? I took ds to a restaurant when he was a week old too... scandalously he slept in a pram while I unashamedly ate a pizza and had a glass of wine call social services

We took our 2 year old and 1 month old to a wedding.
Does that make us bad parents? Neither of us were drinking though and we went home as soon as 2 year old got tired
I month old spent all of the wedding feeding and sleeping.

It's not the going out, it's the loud music (doubtlessly loud enough to damage hearing) and the lack of responsibility of drunk parents. Has anyone actually said there's a problem with going out in the evening per se?

Yes, premature does mean not ready. But like a loaf of bread, there can be different stages of unreadiness, not just one stage.

E.g. still doughy (25 weeks), crust not hardened (32 weeks), not browned (36 weeks), ready (39 weeks).

Just because the finishing touches aren't life-threatening doesn't mean there weren't things left to do. And it doesn't mean people aren't justifiably worried about their child. Do you say someone worried about a knee operation is attention seeking because they don't have cancer?!

Maybe we should dispense with the age limits when using the term premature and do it based on stage of development instead. Some of the midwives in the hospital (home birth but went in a few days later as she wasn't feeding well) thought my daughter was premature, so this way of defining it would probably make more sense (especially as dates are often wrong).

Gald its not just me softly softly. I also took DD out at 1 week old as we need a steriliser. Breastfeeding didn't work. It was fine. She didn't catch anything.