to judge these parents at a wedding?

[villagegossip]

Went to the evening do of a friend's wedding this weekend. Chatting at the bar with DP to some people and a young couple came over to the people standing next to us.

They had a little boy with them about 4 yo and a TINY baby in a carrycot.

They were attracting a lot of attetion as the baby was so little and were loving telling people that he should've been born that day but was in fact 3 weeks prem.

So thinking they had come to say hi to the married couple and maybe have a drink or two, told them how gorgeous he was and went to get a seat.

They proceeded to sit at the next table and get shitfaced

Now, i'm not an old fudder but the disco was banging and there were strobe lights everywhere. The dad kept lifting him out of the carrycot to pass him around their mates for a cuddle.

Poor little chap was all curled into himself with screwed up face and clenched hands and feet like he was trying to hide

It just really upset me that he was being passed around in a really loud, bright place, to people that had been outside fagging it minutes before? and prob didn't wash their hands

Really had to bite my tongue - their other little boy spent the last 3 hours asleep on a bench before they got up and left at around 1.30am.

So AIBU to think they should have left baby with someone elsewhere if they were so determined to stay out all night getting trashed?

YANBU

A friend told me she went to our local pub on saturday.
A couple came in with a girl no older than 4 and a baby boy in a pram. Both parents were clearly drunk or off their heads on something. The father fell on the pram. The bar staff were serving them drinks when it was obvious they had too much to drink.

The police were called thank fuck.

Same on them and the people serving them.

37 weeks may be classed as full term but there's a world of difference between a five pound 37 weeker and a nine pound 42 weeker.

Either way the music, the flashing lights and the drunk parents - not great is it.

Shame on them i meant

We took DD1 to SIL's wedding when she was only 6 weeks old. She was passed around for a bit, and then she slept right through the blaring disco. Doesn't seem to have done her any long-term damage.

YABU, why shouldn't the parents enjoy themselves? Of course it depends on how you define 'shitfaced'. Where they still capable of caring for the children?

I'd say: staying out late with a baby, alright if baby is comfortable, ect.

But not at all acceptable to get shit faced with baby in tow!

Combine I didn't say that they shouldn't have been there, just felt it was the wrong environment for such a tiny baby.

And yes, properly shitfaced. Thought the Dad was going to drop the baby as he weaved in and out of the tables. He managed not to - shame he wasn't so lucky with half of the drinks he brought back to the table

Combinearvester although the official full term label is applied at 37 weeks, real life babies don't have such a clear cut off point.

My daughter was born at 37 weeks + 20 mins, if she had been born 21 mins earlier she would have been classed as premature and plotted on a different growth line for the first year. But really there's no difference between her and one born slightly earlier.

She didn't have her final suckling reflex for the first week, and she was smaller till she caught up.

There is evidence that babies born before 39 weeks are more likely to have long-term developmental issues.

I had a 34+5 and an early but not prem baby. One was 5 and a half pounds. I would have taken both of them out at 3 weeks (in fact I did go out for a meal out when the smallest one was 3 weeks ).

There was certainly not a world of difference between the two once they were home, and certainly no difference between my 37+ 4 baby and my friends 42+4 baby apart from fatness.

People who call their 37/38 weekers 'prem' are weirdly attention-seeking, and in fact it is a bit of a slap in the face to people whose babies are born at 28 or 32 weeks. Why would you want your baby to be premature?

Anyway as I said it is shit for both of them to be shitfaced in charge of children.

I agree combine my two were born at 37 and 35 weeks respectively but would never have said they were premature - dates are all pretty approximate.

Frontpaw I couldn't tell you tbh. I didn't see either of them change him or feed him all night - but i'm sure they did - I just didn't see it but then I was pretty mesmerized by the buffet

sc2987 there is a difference between your baby and a baby born a week earlier. Every day matters in a premature baby.

The growth chart thing is nonsense. My DS was charted on a normal graph, they just started the drawing a few weeks before the big black line. Babies 34 weeks plus are usually treated very much like term babies and require no extra checks with paediatricians or anything, unless they had probs in hospital.

I'm sorry your baby had a poor suck reflex but it remains that a 37 week old baby is not premature. Any time between 37-42 weeks is a normal gestation.

Well then, properly shitfaced means that YANBU about that. But why the fuck did you allow it to continue unchallenged? Say the father had dropped the baby - you'd be on here lamenting that you didn't say or do anything.

The rest of it is no issue to me. The parents have every right to take their DC to the wedding, no-one will die because of it (how many of us older MNers went to similar weddings as children, I wonder?), but the being pissed in charge of a child? Dreadful, wicked, irresponsible and unacceptable.

I canceled my own wedding party because my son was born a month early and was two weeks old when we got married so YANBU. I was very ill but even if I hadn't been I couldn't stand the thought of my tiny baby being a a loud party.

"Poor little chap was all curled into himself with screwed up face and clenched hands and feet like he was trying to hide"

But they all look like that

DS1 (then 3) once spent a wedding reception asleep under a table which had a full length table cloth on it. [shrug] I suspect it won't be the last time :o

But did they forget to take the baby home with them?

Hm. If shitfaced, YANBU.
However, I have a horrendous memory of taking 8 week old DD to lunch with (childless) friends at a "family-friendly" country pub. When she woke up and made a few small noises, I took her to the other side of the garden bit where there were only a few tables.
Older couple call across to me "How old is your baby?"
"Two months old," I replied.
The woman looked horrified and said "NEITHER of you should be out. It's a DISGRACE" and harrumphed. I cried for hours afterwards - like I was a terrible mother for wanting to be somewhere other than my living room.
So, if the scenario was more like that, YWBVU.

37 weeks is not premature.

I don't think it is exactly a cut off point with regards to prematurity. They don't always get the dates right, and can be quite off.

I was induced with my eldest at 38 weeks due to Oligohydramnious. They thought it would be safe, due to technically him being classed as "full term". Once he was born, he was rushed off with breathing difficulties (even though at 34 weeks they had given me that injection in my leg to help mature his lungs) and was kept in SCBU for 3 weeks. They ended up changing it on his notes from 38+2 weeks (was in labour for 2 days) at time of birth, to 36 weeks. He did have written on all of his notes "4 weeks premature", that was certainly not me wanting him to be premature, that was coming from the professionals. So yes, whenever I am asked by consultants etc whether he was premature, or anyone else, my reply is always "Yes, by 4 weeks".

Still, at 7 years old, he has constant chest infections, is on an inhaler, and has had a huge delay in development up until the past year which he is catching up (an awful bloody lot) and seems to of grown up over night out of the blue

I wouldn't have an issue with anything in the OP, apart from them both getting completely sloshed.

Combinearvester I didn't mention babies a week younger! Only that 20 mins doesn't make a difference to a baby's development, but it can make a difference as to whether they are classed as premature or not. The line is a bit arbitrary in that sense.

Perhaps the terminology should be looked at, and an extra term added (37-39 weeks = premature, less than that very premature and then extremely premature or something) to take account of the new evidence we have. Plus of course the average gestation for first babies is 40+8, and there's a high rate of inductions which skews it lower than it really would be.

That's what I meant about the growth chart, they take off the number of weeks premature they are when they plot it. Although there is also a special one on the previous page for the earliest weeks if they're premature.

And babies 34+ weeks shouldn't be treated the same as there is evidence that if released from hospital on time, they have a much higher likelihood of being readmitted later, plus they may also have developmental problems later.

You're correct in your use of the term, but maybe the term itself is wrong/misleading. Nobody wants their baby to be premature, but they do want them to have the appropriate extra support/attention they may need.

A bit off topic but the point is it is wise to be careful of early babies whether or not they are classed as premature. And loud music is a risk for anyone, no need to expose them to it so early when they can't choose it for themselves.

As I said, thought they were there to have a couple of drinks and show friends their new baby. Not a problem.

It was the noise and bright lights plus the drunk parents. If it had been only one of them pissed then fine.

I didn't say anything as they were surrounded by friends and family all night - none of who appeared sober but what do I know? might have had a couple of shiraz's myself by then

YANBU grim grim grim. Poor little thing. I think the loud music, flashing lights, passing around is also pretty horrid for a tiny baby, and would have judgey pants them a lot.

Well said sc2987.

A child born at 36 weeks could have serious health concerns, just like one born at 32 weeks. A baby could be born premature with no real health concerns.

The term "premature" itself isn't an insult to those born rather early A baby born at any point can need urgent medical help, surely as long as that help is provided, that is all that matters?

I was induced at exactly 37 weeks with DS weighing in at 4lb and who is now nearly five...perfectly healthy, normal inquisitive boy except that he's very small for his age..often gets mistaken for a 2-3 yr old. When people ask 'god he's so small for his age' I just say he was a tiny bit prem and it stops anymore questions, i'm not weirdly attention seeking but just cant be arsed explaining the problems I had in my pregnancy

I did take him shopping when he was about a week old and bumped into my midwife who expressed shock and horror and for a nice pub lunch when he was about 2 weeks old. I have friends who haven't been out for a day out for over a year because they follow this little book of parenting and have very regimented nap times. Dont agree with getting shitfaced with young babies, but we only have the OP's opinion to go on re: this but a night out for a big occasion like a wedding when a baby doesn't even know night from day causes no overall lasting damage

I didn't say the term premature was an insult - I said saying a 37 week old baby is premature is a slap in the face to Mum's of really early babies who would have loved to have had what would be to them a giant fat 'take home' 37 week baby. 37 week old babies do not die of illnesses related to gestation, they do not suffer from long term lung and eye problems, or profound and multiple learning difficulties due to their gestation...

There was some recent (2010?) interesting research suggesting that babies born up to 38 weeks may be at greater risk of some learning / behavioural problems, but that is a whole different league to some of the problems suffered by actual premature babies. Also I don't know how decisive their conclusions actually were as I only read the media reports of the research.

I'm afraid I've met too many women who simper about their tiny 'prem' 37 weeker and talk about how worried they were when they 'suddenly' went into labour. My waters broke at 18 weeks in one pregnancy which didn't survive - that was sudden. My friend had a baby at 25 weeks - that was early and tiny and very very ill, nothing at all like my son.

My friend's tiny baby is doing really well btw and I certainly don't want to play tragic story bingo, but I really think the use of the term premature should be thought through.

IM normally laid back about most thing but YANBU i think they were being irresponsible were they really drunk poor baby a little baby IMO should be at home or tucked up and not passed about like a prize, I had 2 premmie babies and until they got some meat on them they were delicate and not got handling,