to think I am both right and unreasonable, and it's all MN's fault?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Warning: If you are the sort of person who expects AIBU to be full of deeply important life issues, this is not the thread for you. If you expect deep indignation, this is also not the thread for you. But I blame MN entirely for my situation, so there.

My dear brother has a baby, and it is the most amazing baby in the world, of course. And DB enjoys educating me and DH because we're poor childless fools (and we like the baby).

Now, I know bugger all about having children, I have never been through labour, and I should, I know, confess my ignorance with a becoming modesty.

However: being a fine, upstanding and lazy member of MN, I spend time on here and I watch stuff like Call the Midwife (which I am sure is practically a documentary, naturally) and One Born Every Minute. And sometimes some of it sinks in, sort of vaguely.

So, we were listening to DB monologue chat about his wife's labour, and DH happened to mention a mutual friend who'd had a difficult time because her baby's shoulder got stuck during delivery. So my brother says, 'oh, no, that doesn't happen! You see, the baby can move around during the pregnancy - but when it wants to be born it puts its head down, and straightens out, and it comes out like that, so there is no way it could get stuck. It's all instinct and nature!'

Leaving aside the fact I'm not 100% sure we needed telling most babies are born head first ... AIBU to feel I am quite right that some babies do get stuck during tricky labours and to feel I must bite my tongue and say nothing about this to my brother because he - rightly - will assume I am a childless know-it-all talking bollocks?

He also came out with, 'You see, LRD, you can't really have drugs during pregnancy because if you do, the baby will not learn to breastfeed - if you don't have drugs, the baby knows what to do by instinct.' So, you know, no pressure.

Now, AIBU to think that if I had never found MN I would never have absorbed any vague inkling that the above information might be in any way incorrect, and I would have trusted by brother and gone around in blissful ignorance?

hec oh that made me laugh! You could park a small VW in my fanjo these days....

joan - DH happened to mention a friend whose baby did get stuck that specific way -DB doesn't believe babies get stuck at all during delivery! I wouldn't have taken the piss quite so much if he'd just not known about one complication, it was the blanket response that no such complications occur I found a bit mind-boggling!

hecate - um, tell your baggy fanny that's quite alright?

DD was beautifully presented at birth in exactly the right position. Unfortunately my body doesn't know how to push so she didn't move down 100% naturally.

I also had pethedine during the latter stages of labour and DD was bfing 5 mins after she was born.

In fact, here's the episode of OBEM where they have to deliver a baby with shoulder dystocia (Sorry this link is absurdly long, but I assume it's correct - if not search for the Feb 8, 2012 episode):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELCp-19ySrk&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Done%2Bborn%2Bevery%2Bminute%2Bshoulder%2Bdystocia%26oq%3Done%2Bborn%2Bevery%2Bminute%2Bshoulder%2Bdystocia%26aq%3D0%26aqi%3Dg1%26aql%3D%26gs_l%3Dyoutube.1.0.0.23995.43303.0.43406.39.6.0.0.0.0.684.1485.1j1j5-2.4.0...0.0.IvI9in7mcbA&has_verified=1

Oh hecate - bloody hell I am sorry.

LRD - please tell your brother to come and share his thoughts with us on mumsnet

Oh ... hackmum, I saw the thread about that episode before I watched it and didn't fancy watching it after that! It sounds a bit scary for me.

GitAwf - I really hope he's not on MN ... this is the only place I get to unwind a little about him.

I am very fond of him. I am very found of my niece and SIL.

I'm just quite glad occasionally to let off a little steam.

I'm sure it will continue to be amusing as she learns more stuff, though.

Aww bless him. I do love that the MW told him he was the best labour partner she'd ever seen. I'm sure she wasn't being sarcastic at all.

In my professional opinion you should tell him to go fuck himself with a look of supreme distaste and condescension.

world - that is lovely to hear. I shall keep your example in mind then.

Id jus let ur bro talk away all he wants. My bro in law thinks he knows everything. He was talking bout wat my child needs to do to pass her swimmin even tho hes never seen her in the water and is not a swimming instructor. I jus let it go in one ear and out the other.
The more things you watch,read, and people you talk to the more you learn so its good that you dont jus listen to your brother and believe everything he says.

comrade your superb phrasing there made me laugh out loud! But ouch ... sorry to bring up wince-inducing memories.

sarry - d'you know, it actually hadn't occurred to me it might have been sarcastic. Genuinely, the thought didn't cross my mind.

It has now, though.

AKE - absolutely. That makes sense.

LRD Your DB is SO wrong.

Babies can and do get stuck. My DS got badly stuck and in completely the wrong position for birth - head was down, but tilted back and sideways (so his forehead was coming out first and his head was at this angle ---> / instead of chin tucked in and head straight). He was also back to back. He got so badly stuck that they couldn't get him out through EMCS (which they only realised after opening me up) and he had to be removed by forceps (which had to go right up through my pelvis and into my womb as his "instinct" hadn't told him to move down far enough before getting stuck).

Yeah, nature is brilliant

I apparently came out bottom first . Hope your SIL doesn't have that happen next time.

Ah hobs, but nature IS brilliant- I am still amazed anyone can have a baby! My birth wasn't straightforward, but i would do it again in a heartbeat. Oh wait, i do have to
It is nice that he is so excited about his baby, better than being disinterested!

Ask my friend to tell you about the shoulder dystocia could have killed her DC2 if a very clever MW hadn't spotted it. Your DB should also research Ina May Gaskin and her Gaskin Manoeuvre.

Oh and Babies certainly can be born breech, DS2 was . It's rare in the UK as its usually picked up at scans/MW appointments and if baby doesn't turn CS is the go-to option.

Oh and the use of drugs in labour (particularly pethidine) can affect latch in the early days of BF but not completely and it's not a total definite.

Childbirth isn't wishy washy lovely safeness.
Cord prolapse and APGAR of zero anyone?
That was DD that was.

(six after 5 mins, they got her back).

And no drugs? Fuck that.

On a side note LRD... Are you pregnant?

ellangirl Babies are a miracle, I'll give you that. I'm not having any more though. Nature and I had a bit of a falling out after DS- failed section, 4th degree tear, 2 first degree tears and two tears in my womb (thanks to the forceps), 3 litres of blood lost. DS born with an Apgar of 0, went to 5 after 5 mins. He had to be resuscitated, suffered a cephal haematoma and suspected skull fracture.

No drugs? I missed that bit. Definitely fuck that.

When are you due, ellan? Congratulations!

You are right it is lovely he is interested and excited by it all.

comrade - no! I wish ... still working on DH but to be fair, my niece is excellently persuasive that babies are lovely and cute. DH thinks she is fab.

I had pethedine and dd1 breastfed, although it took a bit of help from a patient midwife to get her latched on.
I knew about the risk of it making bf more difficult, but If anyone, especially a man, had suggested I didn't have the pain relief I would've killed them! I hope yourDB isn't being as patronising to his DW.

glitter that must have been so scary.

My babies' instincts were to attempt to come out ear first (left occipito transverse and asynclitic equalling deep transverse arrest if disbelieving men want to actually learn something by googling). Of course I had some drugs during the emcs both times and oddly have fed both babies with ease.

I just can't get into one of your db's ignorant pigeon holes. Maybe my instincts are holding me back.

at SOH. Yeah, that'll be it, your instincts.

DH had an apgar of 0 at birth and then 4 at 5 minutes. Funnily enough no university or employer cared.