to think I am both right and unreasonable, and it's all MN's fault?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Warning: If you are the sort of person who expects AIBU to be full of deeply important life issues, this is not the thread for you. If you expect deep indignation, this is also not the thread for you. But I blame MN entirely for my situation, so there.

My dear brother has a baby, and it is the most amazing baby in the world, of course. And DB enjoys educating me and DH because we're poor childless fools (and we like the baby).

Now, I know bugger all about having children, I have never been through labour, and I should, I know, confess my ignorance with a becoming modesty.

However: being a fine, upstanding and lazy member of MN, I spend time on here and I watch stuff like Call the Midwife (which I am sure is practically a documentary, naturally) and One Born Every Minute. And sometimes some of it sinks in, sort of vaguely.

So, we were listening to DB monologue chat about his wife's labour, and DH happened to mention a mutual friend who'd had a difficult time because her baby's shoulder got stuck during delivery. So my brother says, 'oh, no, that doesn't happen! You see, the baby can move around during the pregnancy - but when it wants to be born it puts its head down, and straightens out, and it comes out like that, so there is no way it could get stuck. It's all instinct and nature!'

Leaving aside the fact I'm not 100% sure we needed telling most babies are born head first ... AIBU to feel I am quite right that some babies do get stuck during tricky labours and to feel I must bite my tongue and say nothing about this to my brother because he - rightly - will assume I am a childless know-it-all talking bollocks?

He also came out with, 'You see, LRD, you can't really have drugs during pregnancy because if you do, the baby will not learn to breastfeed - if you don't have drugs, the baby knows what to do by instinct.' So, you know, no pressure.

Now, AIBU to think that if I had never found MN I would never have absorbed any vague inkling that the above information might be in any way incorrect, and I would have trusted by brother and gone around in blissful ignorance?

Do you know, I have no idea what DS's APGAR score was. He clearly wan't into scoring high test marks at birth though, as he lost a lot of points in my book coming out with elbow by his head. No chance to get stuck as he came out in one contraction. Awkward babies are a bit of a theme already on this thread. Perhaps we should play them instructions in utero?

baroness - I like that! So if I want to justify the odd painkiller to him I shall just say wisely it's a precaution against babies that are hard to wean. Excellent!

ellan - oh, yes, I know I should put all the horror stories out of my mind if I do get to that point.

Your DB is spouting shite sadly LRD Sorry!

Babies can and so get stuck - google shoulder dystocia.

I had 2 normal drug free deliveries and didnt manage to bf either of mine (1st delivery my milk didnt come in due to retained placenta)

Wonder what your DB would say?...

Bless him...he is very pleases with himself and the baby. Its sweet (if a tad annoying).

I had a pretty drug free labour, but dd didn't know how to feed; her instinct was clearly faulty and we ended up in hospital.

Perhaps you could gently explain to your brother that instinct and everything else about babies is a result of Evolution, and the way Evolution works is that the ones that don't make the grade...errr...die, unless somebody intervenes.

Darwin never suggested that the process of evolution involved the Survival of Every Single Individual: it is about the Survival of the Species.

Quite a few of us have babies who would never have survived in anything like a state of nature.

maryz was that your thread about the APGAR and the 'gifted' child? I vaguely remember that ... it was very funny.

''He is very pleased with himself as the midwife said he was the best labour partner she'd every seen''

Was that in 'be a dear, piss off and let me do my job' way?

I have given birth, but I was off my head on very good drugs. The only thing I could tell you is how much I really enjoyed my tea and toast!

It is sweet, bad, and I do try to keep that in mind when he comes out with the odd stuff. He loves his DD very much.

cory - oh, good point!

Ha.

babies can get stuck.

my first did. Shoulder dystocia. And instead of performing the mcroberts manouvre, the doctor (yes doctor) pulled on his head so hard that she caused nerve damage and left him with erbs palsy.

So your brother is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Oh, ouch. Hecate I'm sorry to have brought up bad memories.

Is the Apgar score in the red book, I don't remember dd's told you the drugs were good

yanbu, your DB is making the classic mistake of someone who's wife had a straightforward and uncomplicated delivery, which is all very lovely for her (and him) but not what everyone gets.

yes - it's called shoulder dystocia - once the baby is stuck then they have 5 mins or so max to get the baby out - can lead to broken bones for baby or usually massive tearing/episiotomy for the mother. I know a lady that had this and she ended up with 3rd degree tears

there are lots of ways a baby can get stuck!

dont worry LRD most births are totally boring and straightforward!

Your brother sounds just like mine. His first child was born a year before my DS and 4 years on, he still puts himself forward as the expert on everything child related. I can't tell him anything at all and any advice I give him on parenting problems of which he has several are immediately dismissed. He's incredibly competitive re: our children so I have to point out that of course his DC1 is more advanced than DS on X,Y and Z - mostly because DC1 is older!!!

Smile and nod, smile and nod...

oh, it's alright, don't give it a thought. I didn't have to post he's alive, that's what matters. We both nearly died.

I just think it's important that people know that such things can and do happen (without panicking about it!) because it's important to be prepared.

oh, and I had my second 15 months later - bigger - (1st was 10lb4oz and second was 10lb 5oz) and he could have walked out.

Actually, the midwife could have nipped in there to fetch him

Ah, fortunately scottish I have no advice whatsoever to offer. I can imagine it would be immensely irritating to have to keep pointing out your DC are younger and therefore at a different stage, though!

It does sound as if it's not that uncommon to take one good experience as a blueprint for everything, judging by these replies.

Glad to hear that hecate (erm ... I think that's the appropriate response?! ).

oh and to add to the awkward babies - ds was back to back with his hand on his head - q 4 days of long slow labour - no sleep! Followed by 16months of not sttn (and still counting)

getting stuck is not called shoulder dystocia, shoulder dystocia is one of the many ways a baby can get stuck. Back to back babies can also get well wedged in due to facing the wrong way, as all 3 of my labours can attest to.

Me and my baggy fanny thank you

Oh dear. Not only does shoulder dystocia happen, but it can be really dangerous, as Hecate said. Tell him to look up Erb's palsy - not nice.

As for drugs, utter nonsense. Lots of women have drugs in labour (I assume he means labour, not pregnancy) and go onto breastfeed without problems. I'm one of them!

god hectate - that is unimaginable - so sorry