to be completely heartless?

[BrittaPerry]

DH always seems to have an excuse to drink.

When we first met it was that his previous marriage had failed a few months before we met. Fair enough, I was supportive. I got fed up when I got told (whilst in hospital during my first pregnancy) that nothing I was going through was anything like what his ex had gone through with her major illness - it wasn't but I just needed support - same as when my crash section wasn't as bad as the general that his ex had had for her completely unrelated operation) but overall, I accepted that it must have been hard for him for his relationship to break down and then to feel guilty about knocking up his random rebound fling (ie me)

OK...so then it got a couple of years into our relationship. I had severe mental health problems, which must have been hard for him. I don't remember much from those times - I know DD1 spent a lot of time with my mum, and while I was in hospital, she was always with my mum. That isn't to say it wasn't hard for DH though, and he drank because of how hard it was.

Then his brother got seriously ill, so he drank to deal with that. Fair enough, I can't even imagine what it would be like to go through that. I got pregnant again in that time so my mental state was stable, so I didn't mind him going out and drinking all night three times a week, because of the mental strain. We moved across the country to be with his family, and I scrimped and saved to afford the deposit for a new house, and he spent the first months rent on booze, so his parents had to pay that - I'm pretty sure he blamed it on both of us.

Then his brother died. Awful, awful time. I was six months pregnant, but of course I was there for him and his family as much as I could be. He went out drinking nearly every night, but that was fair enough, given what was going on in his life.

I tried to be supportive through the pregnancy and his grieving, but there were times like when his parents were watching DD1 and I couldn't so much as roll over in bed to get my phone (I had SPD that incapacitated me) and he went "to the shop" and stayed out all night. Apparently me being so dependant reminded him too much of his ex, hence why he couldn't stand to be in the house.

Then I had DD2 (of course, a planned section was NOTHING like his exes planned back surgery) and of course he found that hard. So he would be an hour or two late home from work every night, but it was only because he didn't want to come home from work and face all the stressful home stuff without a drink, and anyway, if he came home straight from work he would be angry, and we didn't want that, did we?

Then DD2 was teething and I started work again, but of course I had to look after DD2 because she was breastfed, and so of course DH couldn't look after her. IT was my fault for wanting to work without sorting out my home priorities apparently.

Then I got ill again, so of course he had to drink to cope with that (tbf, I don't remember much of this time, I was very very ill)

Then he got back into serious drinking and cheated on me, so agreed to go to relate and AA. Relate was a waste of time, apart from bringing us closer through mocking the useless woman. AA was going well, I thought, untill I found that when he had been sitting talking to me and the kids, and told me he was googling the nearest meeting for that night in the laptop, he was actually googling a strip club.

Still, we worked it out.

I got ill again, and ended up in hospital. He was very supportive.

Then after that he had to drink to cope with me.

Then he had to drink because he was thinking about his brother.

Now it has turned into drinking because...his parents are old and apparently might die at any minute. They are in their 60's and in good health.

When he is drink, he starts off fun and outgoing, but then turns maudlin. He never actually hits people, but gets kind of aggressive in speech. He is very clever, but uses that to run rings around people on any point they make, even if I know he agrees with them - he just like to debate, even if the other person doesn't want to. He also spends the day after a session shouting at the kids and me for the slightest thing.

AIBU to say that he either needs to see his doctor and get help or stop expecting me to tiptoe round his drinking? He thinks I am being heartless because he only drinks to deal with his life.

You know, I think you should take the kids and leave/show him the door. He is clearly incapable of coping without drink and you will all be better off without him. Yes, there have been some hard times but other people cope just fine. TBH he sounds like an alcoholic, it also sounds like he is in denial hence there won't be a change for the forseeable future. Also "if he doesn't drink he'll come home angry" and what, feel justified in smacking you around cos he hasn't got likkered yet? Seriously, show this man the door. This is not a good man for you, and not a good role model for your children.
And no, you are not BU....but you seem to be a bit passive in this situation

It's not often I sit reading an OP with a face on, but your OP is a lot of huge things in your lives, and all together it's not surprising they've had an effect on you both.

Your DP looks like he has a pretty bad drink problems, and has done for a while.

What is it that's made you put up with all this shit from him? Have you been accepting his excuses for behaving like a wanker thinking he'll change at some point?

There are no excuses for him treating you as he has, even though he's been going through stuff himself.

A lot of people use alcohol as an emotional crutch, but that's no reason to be unfaithful or abusive to the person you're living with.

The thing is, he says that I have been much more trouble (and he is right - I have been sectioned - he has had to physically restrain me in the middle of a psychosis while the ambulance/police come, and visit me in hospital while I chat away to imaginary people) and so I shouldn't interfere with his way of coping.

The thing is, I take medication and put up with being lectured by doctors and nurses. I can't get drunk (I can drink now I am well, but not throw caution to the wind), I have to get the right amount of sleep, I am very gradually going back to work and so on - it's not like I am just merrily going about not caring if I get ill again.

I'm with Sneaky on this one. He drinks because he's an alcoholic, plain and simple. I think you need to say he either needs to go to rehab or leave.

And just sos you know, he's not going to go to rehab until he realizes HE is the reason he's drinking, nothing else. And even if he does go, it likely won't take the first time, it will take a couple of stays to catch on.

I know this because my BIL is an alcoholic, and he's been to rehab 3 times now. He really does want to get better, but it's a really really hard thing to do!

Britta, you have problems as you've very bravely told us, but you are DEALING with them. You're not blaming your issues on anything he's done. His drinking is the same, HE is doing it, you're not doing to to him. Being an alcoholic is the same as any other mental health issue, he has to want to cure himself.

Is there any way he can stop without AA? The religious aspect put him off.

(well, that and the fact that it was apparently full of alcoholics...)

"he says that I have been much more trouble ... and so I shouldn't interfere with his way of coping."

If you flip that logic, you have bigger issues and you're handling them, why can't he handle his small one?

He can go to an inpatient clinic.

There is no way he would do that. He isn't bad enough anyway, surely?

A couple of times he has admitted he has a problem. The first time, he got prescribed antidepressants, took them for two days and they declared they were "for the weak" (at the time I was on them plus anti-psychotics) and stopped it. The second was the time he went to AA for a couple of weeks.

He says that he doesn't have a problem because he has days he doesn't drink.

DH says I am being snobby and that all working class men drink..

TBF, my dad drinks more regularly than him (and has a much more WC job and background, if that is the issue) and has no problems (he has four cans every night before bed) but he behaves himself and drinks them at home. DH drinks till he is drunk four times a week, and gets so drunk he is slurring, staggering etc once a week.

You don't owe him anything because he's looked after you when you were very ill Britta, that doesn't give him licence to behave however the fuck he likes with the expectation you put up and shut up.

Do you really think he wants to give up the drink?

The amount of effort he puts into finding excuses for it doesn't say to me he wants to for himself. Even excusing himself not going to AA! He's a dab hand at it.

oh love, he sounds like an alcoholic.

What can I do to make him see? He is lovely in between getting drunk. He just flat out denies that he is ever unreasonable when drunk.

He belittles your suffering.
He is unfaithful.
He lies.
He won't look after his children.
He blames you for his failings.
He is an alcoholic.

He's a horrible person, I'm afraid, sweetie. Get rid.

I've been in AA and the other fellowships. There is no "religious aspect" - not in the UK, anyhow. The word God is used, but they take pains to explain what the word represents and that you may choose any recovery symbol you wish. (I knew several alcoholics who chose an empty bottle!) So he's lying about that, too.

In your posts you're taking the blame for his lousy behaviour and pathetic selfishness. This is what mean-minded manipulators do to those who love them. Please call a complete halt to it now. You can get support from your mum, yes?

I am a long time poster (it must be over five years now that I have been posting most days - I just NC quite a lot), and I do tend to get "leave the bastard" whenever I post about him.

He is lovely most of the time though, and I do cause him a lot of problems. Anyway, if I left him, I would have to go back to my mum's house (my MH is good atm, but if it gets bad, and it does if big things happen, I need live in support) and that would be too cruel on his parents - all they have left is dh, me and the kids.

Cross-post. To make him see what? Selfish dickheads don't suddenly decide to change their personalities because someone's stopped doormatting for them. They go and find another doormat. He's done that once already ...

Remember what Al-Anon says:
You can't control it.
You didn't cause it.
You can't cure it.

:(

What can I do without leaving him?

I do love him, and we have a lovely relationship. Even most times he gets drunk, but there is always that fear there that he will go grumpy or angry. He would never hurt us, but he is so shouty and nasty sometimes, then says I am over reacting and that he didn't even shout.

Right, so you're prepared to sacrifice your life for the sake of his parents? How would your mum feel if she knew that? You'll be sacrificing your DC's chances of a balanced, secure future, too, if you allow them to grow up believing co-dependent relationships are normal.

I do tend to get "leave the bastard" whenever I post about him.

Yet you're still determined that if you lie down a little flatter, sacrifice a little more, he will miraculously change.

A 'lovely relationship' doesn't involve the fear of someone getting aggressive on a regular basis, or that they're cheating on you, or making excuses for treating you like shit.

The excuses you're making on his behalf sound as though you're trying to reconcile the knowledge you need to escape him, with the feeling of being trapped because you don't think anyone else could care for you because you have mental health problems.

Having mental health problems doesn't mean you need to 'pay' for someone to look after you by letting them treat you like dirt.

You do though, don't you? That is the deal when you have kids - the grandparents help out with the kids, and you are there when they need you when they need company, or later when they are old anf frail.

I love his parents, they are amazing, and DH hardly spends any time with them, so all they have is me and the kids. They are brilliant - eg the baby didn't sleep last night, and his mum popped round for some reason before DH had to leave for work, took one look at me (falling asleep stood up) and took the kids to her house so I could sleep, abandoning her plans. I could have kissed her.

Everyone is loyal to their family - just like MIL visits her MIL and does errands, my MIL looks after my kids far, far more than she has to - she and FIL go out of their way to help. My mum has her mum living with her, but then she (my nana) looked after us every evening while we were kids. It is just what happens. The ILs are not something I am prepared to abandon - even if I did leave the area, I would have to be bringing the kids back to see the ILs on top of seeing DH.

I just wish I had had the sense to marry someone from my town. He was in my town, but his parents were back over here.

I love him, but he needs to cut down on the drink.

I can't leave him. I don't want to, and even if I did, I can't uproot dd1 from school and take them both 200 miles from home. I miss my home town dreadfully, and my nana being old worries me daily. But how can I take the DDs from the ILs? I have a business here (very small, but I have built it up myself) and I am starting to make friends - my behaviour when ill has made me a bit of an outcast back home and here people think I am normal. He is lovely, he is fun. Except when booze takes over.

So if you left him you could still spend time with in laws. It's far better that you leave an unhealthy relationship. You yourself say when you post about your situation that you are advised to leave him. I can see there are times that he is lovely but it seems there is more time where it isn't lovely, where he shouts and models bad behavior for the dc's. Good luck whatever you decide, but please make a decision, not just go along with the status quo because it's easiest.

It is very frustrating reading your posts. You want validation for staying with a useless prick who has/will continue to ruin your life and is a shit role model to his kids but you 'love him' and 'can't leave him'. Well Nothing we say will make a difference will it? You are passive and choose to stay in a relationship with a man who has no respect for you and who will emotionally damage your children with his behaviour (they will then, in all likelihood grow up to
Choose men who treat them like shit because that is what they know from seeing you)

What do you expect people to say? That he will Change? He won't. You will waste your life and your children's childhood on him and grow increasingly bitter and realise one day when it is too late you have wasted your life on an idiot.

Or you could leave now and build a lovely future for you and your children.

Only you can decide.

You think you owe him because of your mental health problems? You think that he deserves to drink because he has been through a lot? Is that what this is about?

Mental illness such as you have had is not something you can control. Yes, addiction is also classed as a mental illness but not in the same way - and it can be controlled, should the addict choose to take control. Your DH is not choosing to take control, he is choosing to wallow in his addiction at your expense. You, otoh, choose to do your best to stay well - I presume you take your medications and don't wilfully come off them?

You are in a co-dependent relationship and you are scared to leave - understandable, under the circumstances - but you are also stuck because he knows this.

He has to choose to quit. He has to accept that he has a real problem (and he does). He has to realise that he is risking his life with his alcohol consumption - not only increasing the risk of accidents etc. now but also of longterm liver damage. None of this will matter to him while alcohol is his master - he is not in control, whatever he thinks.

Your children will have a very damaged childhood growing up with an alcoholic father - the uncertainty, the instability and possibly the violence (even if only verbal at this stage) are not going to be conducive to them having a rounded happy childhood.

In the end, what do you want from this thread? You don't want to leave, you cannot do anything about his drinking yourself - if it's just a venting thread then fine, but you have to expect that people will look at your situation and tell you that the best thing for you and your DC is to get him out until he dries out.

You say he denies all the things he does / says when he is drunk. Can you not video him and show him when he is sober or would this cause even more problems? He is an alcoholic even if he doesn't drink daily he is using his family reasons as an excuse.. However it sounds by your posts that he doesn't want to stop which is the main part of the problem... Good luck with whatever you do.