To be confused by the facts surrounding what is is to be British, Scottish, Welsh, Irish or 'from the UK'.

[owlelf]

Apologies in advance to anyone upset my ignorance but I am genuinely confused by the what is the most correct and least offensive way to explain how Britain and the UK are comprised, what the correct nationalities are and how the various flags should be used to represent us?

Am I correct in thinking Britain = England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales and The United Kingdom = England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

I would describe myself as British, living in the UK and the flag I most identify with is the Union Jack. However, I'm only just beginning to realise that the term 'British' is not a way that many people in some parts Britain would like to describe themselves, and I now realise that loads of people in Scotland don't identify with the Union Jack.

Ds was asking me recently what 'our' flag was. I told him it was the Union Jack, but his grandpa has confused the issue by insisting that our flag is the St George's Cross.

Sporting events seem to muddy the water further- sometimes we compete separately as England Ireland Scotland and Northern Ireland, at other times we compete all together as the UK.

AIBU to be confused??

Bluemoon - yes, the Isle of Man is a Crown Dependency too.

?But you know as well as I, patriotism is a word; and one that generally comes to mean either my country, right or wrong, which is infamous, or my country is always right, which is imbecile.?
― Patrick O'Brian

A quote I try and remember whenever the old blood gets stirred up at a perceived offensive to "my" country. The fact is in any country there are cretins and people we wouldn't be able to stand talking to and those who we would enjoy friendships with. Where we are born is not something we have any choice in whatsoever.

I think Bennifer makes a good point. All Western Europeans are mongrels to a large degree. It's silly to think that all Scots are Celts and all English are Saxons. The island that encompasses England, Wales and Scotland is a tiny one that has interbred over the milennia. Nationality is a state of mind rather than a state of genetics.

Man.

Yeah, well genetics are one thing, but not so much on the shared history, there, man. You might as well say we share a history with the whole bloody world.

Here's a "this may be offensive, but that's what this thread is all about" one for the Welsh - is it true you're a Principality not a Country? Do you feel OK about that?

Not the whole bloody world, just the tiny island that you're sitting on

Why does the Isle of Man 'British Islands' passport look like an EU passport when the Isle of Man isn't in the EU?

How can you say we don't have a shared history? Hell, the British Empire was definitely British not just English. Scotland, particularly, was very involved and benefited from the wealth of the Empire. I can't remember the exact reason now but there was quite a high number of young Scottish men who went out to try their luck in India. I think it might have something to do with second sons and inheritance - though it's quite possible I'm remembering that point wrong.

But the second city of the British Empire was Glasgow. Though one of the odd benefits that British and English seem to be synonymous to so many is that England tends to get the full blame of the evils of Empire. Everyone else's involvement tends to get forgotten about. A silver lining in every cloud and all that.

Darien Scheme anyone? When Scotland tried to launch their very own empire?

I am Anglo-Irish-Indian with a bit of Welsh . I gave up trying to explain that one in primary school.

I refer to myself as British but culturally am a fair mix of all those places (less so with the Welsh bit).

DH is English/British and comes out with quite a lot of Anglo Saxon at times .

I'm born in Wales, English Mother and a father from Jersey.

I call myself British. I personally think that all this stuff about being Welsh, English or Scottish is extremely childish and archaic. United stand and all that.

To answer the original post:
Great Britain: England, Scotland & Wales
United Kingdom: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland
British Isles: As UK + ROI and Channel Islands.

Is that correct?

And Paisley crikeyshot, centre of the weaving industry.

squoosh
And Dundee was important in the textiles and jute industry as well. Bloody hell this is a subject that I'd long thought I'd forgotten and didn't think I'd need to remember.

Have just gone and looked for the numbers of Scots who headed out, couldn't find and exact figure (all my old books are hundreds of miles away) but according to the google facts: Professor Tom Devine, author of The Scottish Empire, by 1771 almost half of the East India Company's writers were Scots, and by 1813, some 19 of Calcutta's private merchant houses were dominated by Scots.

Right, but in Scottish schools they start teaching history from a bit earlier than the 18th century.

You know we have our own legal system, educational system and religious traditions, don't you. I say there historical reasons for that. It's not just crazee Jock and his quirky ways.

I can still tell you allll about the run rig system.

And, for some reasons, early road construction. We stopped at WW1.

And a for the highland clearances... Don't get me started!

Yes SurgeonsMate thanks for that, I've been living in Scotland for ten years so I'm well aware.

For you to say that Scotland doesn't share history with England is fatuous.

I know. Half my family is from Scotland. I have lived a large amount of my formative years in Scotland including university.

At no point have I or squoosh said that Scotland/England/Wales don't have separate histories/traditions/laws of their own. But you can't say that we do not also have a long and very intertwined history together. Which is inevitable considering the fact that we are all living on one, pretty small, island together. We really quite inter-bred and I don't see how you can say we don't have a shared history.

But I apologise if I have caused any offence.

I'm Scottish, don't care about the flag so much, feel a bit grim about all these union jacks everywhere atm (I'm in London.)

Will happily call myself British or Scottish, but I hate being called English. Mostly just because it's factually incorrect but also because I feel different to the English (mostly because the English are so easily offended, I mean, you can't even call them a daft cunt without them getting all hufty.)

Sorry too slow. That was to TheSurgeonsMate not Frontpaw.

Well I don't suppose I am offended, I just don't think that the differences between our histories are a few made up stories! I think they are real differences with ongoing impact.

I'm sorry but I really don't understand, what do you mean "made up stories"?

Is that not what benifer said? "I don't understand what the whole Scottish welsh English thing is about, apart from a few made up stories we basically share the same history."

That's not a deliberate non-capitalisation of Welsh, by the way

Of course there are real differences but surely you must see that the histories of England, Scotland and Wales are interlinked in a myriad of ways. The Scottish story isn't only one of being oppressed. You can't always compartmentalise history into neat little blocks of who did what to whom.

History isn't tidy.