To be confused by the facts surrounding what is is to be British, Scottish, Welsh, Irish or 'from the UK'.

[owlelf]

Apologies in advance to anyone upset my ignorance but I am genuinely confused by the what is the most correct and least offensive way to explain how Britain and the UK are comprised, what the correct nationalities are and how the various flags should be used to represent us?

Am I correct in thinking Britain = England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales and The United Kingdom = England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

I would describe myself as British, living in the UK and the flag I most identify with is the Union Jack. However, I'm only just beginning to realise that the term 'British' is not a way that many people in some parts Britain would like to describe themselves, and I now realise that loads of people in Scotland don't identify with the Union Jack.

Ds was asking me recently what 'our' flag was. I told him it was the Union Jack, but his grandpa has confused the issue by insisting that our flag is the St George's Cross.

Sporting events seem to muddy the water further- sometimes we compete separately as England Ireland Scotland and Northern Ireland, at other times we compete all together as the UK.

AIBU to be confused??

yes but that's because it is an island wide federation. It has no political relevance (and bar handsome Tommy Bowe you can take the rest of them)

our golf federation is the same

English is a language.

British Citizen is a nationality.

And before 1/1/83 I was (along with many of you) a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies. (so we'd have needed to scroll back up the dropdown to the "C" )

Mrskpbw I'm appalled at your old teacher's ignorance!

In most of the sports I know the republic of Ireland will accept athletes with NI credentials. That is because the south believes all of Ireland are Irish and is generally pro unification. For most sports to represent ireland you need to be eligible for an Irish passport which most people living in NI are see www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP11000023
Irish passports look at "the island of Ireland"

In most of the sports I know the republic of Ireland will accept athletes with NI credentials. That is because the south believes all of Ireland are Irish and is generally pro unification. For most sports to represent ireland you need to be eligible for an Irish passport which most people living in NI are see www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP11000023
Irish passports look at "the island of Ireland"

In another wrinkle, the "English" cricket team is actually a British team, which is not the case in eg rugby or football.

2rebecca the one I'm never sure about is "Eire" - what's that? Well, I mean I know what it is, but what's the nuance or context where it's used?

We accept NI athletes as citizens of Northern Ireland are entitled to Irish passports under the peace process agreements (can never remember if it's sunningdale or the good friday agreement)

TheSurgeonsMate it is actually the English and Welsh cricket team, Scotland have their own. Although players who is Scottish or Northern Irish or Irish do sometimes play for England as it is a test nation whereas Scotland and Ireland aren't, I think if you're not English or Welsh though you have to have lived in England for a certain length of time to do so.

who are

Oh, I thought the Scottish cricket team was more like a county side and that if you were shit hot at cricket and Scottish you could play for England.

Its a tricky one and I've put a bit of thought into my response and don't wish to offend.

I'm Scottish. I'm very proud to be Scottish. I don't feel British and would refer to myself as Scottish before British. Why? A whole lot of reasons but one I can explain is that quite often when no holiday you get assumed to be English. I remember being in Turkey when I was about 16 and walking past some local guys who were quite sleazy and being leary. We told them to get lost. They shouted after us 'you English girls are all slags' and we turned round and declared 'we're not English!'

But it happens a lot, tour reps, locals etc assume your English. Like I said its not offensive as such but annoying because I'm not English. I don't know if that makes sense but its just one factor in how I feel.

I do not identify with the union flag. I think a lot of my feelings are based on growing up and watching news reports when English football fans were getting in lots of trouble. It probably isn't fair to say fans but you know what I mean. Lots of them were plastered in union Jack tattoos or flags etc. That annoyed me as the hooligans were dragging all of our names through the mud. Its silly things like Andy Murray being British until he looses, feeling a bit like we're just lumped in as a part of England a lot of the time.

I'm award this might come across as chip on the shoulder ish and us Scots always get accused of that but I suppose if you've always been the dominant partner in a union its hard to understand.

GB= England, Scotland, Wales.
UK= England, Scotland, Wales, NI.
The UK used to be (before the 1920s) England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

There are many sports which have all-Ireland teams (i.e. people from north and south of Ireland, with UK or Irish passports).
Everyone from Northern Ireland has the right to both UK and Irish passports anyway, but don't require an Irish passport to play e.g. rugby for Ireland.
People in NI split roughly into three groups regarding national identity - Irish (mainly Catholics), British (mainly Protestants) and Northen Irish (bit of both). Many people from the north identify more closely with Scottish people than Irish.

The British Isles is a term sometimes used to refer to Britain & Ireland. Some Irish people are offended by this as they think it is saying they are British in some way. This is actually incorrect - ancient Greek texts refer to the'Pretanic Isles', Ierne (Ireland) and Albion (Britain). The Romans called their province Britannia after the island group, rather than keeping its own name.

BTW, it may have been mentioned already but if you identify with the Union Jack it would appear that you're at sea. It's the Union flag when on land. :)

TheSurgeonsMate well that is basically how it works in practice Although, I think a good Scottish player would need to have lived in England or Wales for a certain length of time to qualify, but if they're good then they're going to be playing in a county side so it's not like they would need to go to any special effort.

AFAIK Scotland and Ireland both play in the cricket equivalent of the FA Cup with the county sides, but not in the county league, which is where it gets confusing.

I didn't know there was a British Islands and a British Isles and that Republic of Ireland was part of the latter.

I am English.

The Irish rugby team represents the whole island, therefore both the Republic and Northern Ireland. That's why they play the neutral anthem "Ireland's Call" and not the Irish national anthem (except for home games (I think) where they play both). It doesn't mean that we are "pro-unification" in the south (by which I assume you mean we want to have a 32 county Ireland?). Everyone in NI is eligible for an Irish passport, obviously there is a massive section of the community who would never get one and therefore would choose not to play for Ireland. That's fine too.

"Éire" is "Ireland" in Irish. It's on our stamps. Note the accent above the first e". A lot of Irish people find it irritating when others misspell it as "Eire", you may have encountered it in this context, i.e. as something Irish people object to. In fact it is hardly used now (except perhaps in official circles/ translations etc.) we just call our country "Ireland". Or the "Republic of Ireland"

It has been mentioned, and disputed, Graham and I think the general consensus is... Meh.

The British Isles to include the Republic is rather outmoded. Not many Irish people would use the term.

takingiteasy Do you know, I looked but didn't see any reference to it? I really must get eyesight sorted out!

Anyway, I reflect as I head out to vote on the EU fiscal pact, we will all soon be called "Europe" or perhaps "Germany" so all this won't matter......

I thought the reason the Irish Rugby team played as one was because it pre-dated partition and they just carried on playing as one team after 1920. It isn't a team from the Republic of Ireland that lets NI players play in the same way it is with football.

The straightforward ones are the geographical entities:

Great Britain = England + Wales + Scotland
Ireland = Republic of Ireland + Province of Northern Ireland

Then UK = Great Britain + Northern Ireland

Smaller islands off the coast would generally be counted as part of the nearest nation e.g. barra, mull would be Scottish, Isle of Wight would be England.

However I'm not sure about Isle of Man and Channel Islands. Also some in the Orkneys and Shetlands would not necessarily regard themselves as Scottish though probably formally they are.

One tricky case is "Britain" as distinct from "Great Britain". I would use "Britain" as the area in which one is entitled to a British passport, so same as UK.

It pisses me off a bit for our Olympic team to be given the silly title of "Team GB". Not only silly but inaccurate as people from Northern Ireland are qualified to be members.

Another problematic term - I think not previously mentioned - is Ulster. This is often taken to mean the 6 counties comprising Northern Ireland, though there is an older and more authentic 9 county Ulster, which includes the 6 NI counties plus 3 now in the Republic: Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan.

It's all a bit of a minefield - no doubt I have got some thins wrong above.