To be confused by the facts surrounding what is is to be British, Scottish, Welsh, Irish or 'from the UK'.

[owlelf]

Apologies in advance to anyone upset my ignorance but I am genuinely confused by the what is the most correct and least offensive way to explain how Britain and the UK are comprised, what the correct nationalities are and how the various flags should be used to represent us?

Am I correct in thinking Britain = England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales and The United Kingdom = England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

I would describe myself as British, living in the UK and the flag I most identify with is the Union Jack. However, I'm only just beginning to realise that the term 'British' is not a way that many people in some parts Britain would like to describe themselves, and I now realise that loads of people in Scotland don't identify with the Union Jack.

Ds was asking me recently what 'our' flag was. I told him it was the Union Jack, but his grandpa has confused the issue by insisting that our flag is the St George's Cross.

Sporting events seem to muddy the water further- sometimes we compete separately as England Ireland Scotland and Northern Ireland, at other times we compete all together as the UK.

AIBU to be confused??

I am really glad I posted my OP. Having read the thread I am much less confused. Although I do think some aspects of this are complicated, especially when it comes to sports teams.

Thank you to those like takingiteasy who do not consider themselves British and have explained their reasons so thoughtfully. It is interesting to note that in some cases it is the assumption of other people that Britain = England which has contributed to an anti-British feeling.

I feel very Scottish, a little bit British and a tiny bit European.

And actually, to the smaller scale, I am very very Edinburger

I am NOT in any way English, Scotland is not part of England, the Union flag is not the English flag, the Queen is not just the queen of England and Westminster is not the English parliament. I know that you lot all know that but a lot of the world doesn't. I have met so many americans who cannot understand the Scottish/British thing even though it's not that different to somebody identifying as both Texan and American.

"I live in northern Ireland but hold an Irish passport so my nationality is Irish"

oopps

I didn't know that! I really thought UK = British nationality

So is N. Ireland always Irish nationality? confused...

NI people can call themselves whichever they please, they have choice of passport.

I think (though not 100% sure) that people in NI have a choice of British or Republic of Ireland passport. Whether they can have dual nationality I don't know.

maybenow
"I know that you lot all know that but a lot of the world doesn't. I have met so many americans who cannot understand the Scottish/British thing even though it's not that different to somebody identifying as both Texan and American."

Not that long ago I was talking with a very well travelled American friend who was studying British history only to realise that she thought that Britain = England only. Cue much flailing of arms on my part and explaining that she was in fact standing on British soil in Britain up in Scotland just as she would still be in Britain south of the border.

I am English, born to English parents (with some Irish and Italian thrown in for good measure). I consider myself to be both English and British. My younger brother and sister, were born in Wales and consider themselves to be Welsh and British (despite having English parents). My children identify themselves as Welsh, because that is where they were born and brought up, but have an English mother and half English and half Danish father.

It's funny how my siblings and I, identify our nationalities differently, despite having exactly the same ancestry and for my children to identify as a different nationality to me and dh (who has no strong feelings about nationality, really).

I think, in the end, you are whatever you feel yourself to be.

Britain is the State and we are all citizens of the British State. Traditionally England/Scotland/Wales are nations and our nationality is english/scottish etc. This has changed to some extent as when a Nation-State is created there is a concerted effort to try and create an identity in order for the State to be legitimate in the eyes of its people and to form social cohesion between the various nations and so it could be argued a British nationality also exists.

Also, are we citizens or subjects?

You're right thefurryone, sorry on re-reading my post it seems I'm saying it is primarily a team from the Republic "allowing" NI players to play, that's not the case.

I'm Scottish first and British second.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but in parts of Scotland the nationality you identify with is very much tied up with other issues. Rangers supporters wave union flags at matches and sing God Save the Queen because traditionally they're loyalists, whereas at Celtic matches all you'll see are Irish flags. I know many, many Glaswegians who identify strongly with Ireland - one example is the footballer Aiden McGeady, who chose to play for ROI over Scotland due to his Irish grandparents.

I think it's best to think of the UK as a federation of different countries - like the EU but older.

A bit of trivia: the Queen is technically Queen Elizabeth I of Scotland, because the countries were separate during the reign of the original Elizabeth. Apparently.

Ireland (Republic of) is not not not part of Britain or the UK. Are you trying to start a riot?

I would make a distinction between nationality and ethnicity/ ethnic identity.

People who live in GB have a legal nationality as British citizens.

But they may consider their ethnicity to be something else - Scottish, Welsh, English or Cornish. Or they may consider their ethnicity to be British.

There was no choice of white English on a form I was filling in recently, so I have put ticked white other. If they were asking my nationality, I'd consider that to be a legal status rather than a self identification, and I would put British/UK citizen.

Interesting that nobody seems to have talked about the difference between Britain and Great Britain.

Britain = England & Wales
Great Britain = England, Wales & Scotland

UK, same as others have said.

I consider myself English, despite having one Irish & one english parent. I am definitely more English than British! I am European when necessary.

Mother born and raised in Eire, father born and raised in Wales, I was born in England and raised in England and Wales. Am I English? I think of myself as just British.

The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are Crown Dependancies.

People from Northern Ireland are entitled to dual citizenship, and therefore could hold both an Irish and a British passport if they choose.

Don't many people in Shetland and Orkney feel closer to Scandinavia than Britain?

I always think it's worth remembering that this is the island of Britain and was always called that before the Anglo Saxons arrived. So the Welsh, Cornish, Scots, Manx, Cumbrians (whatever other Celtic minoreity you can think of) are technically British. Whether or not they/we feel it, is another matter entirely :). All depends on whether you think Britain is a geographical or political entitity first and foremost.

What are people from the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands entitled to, passporty-wise?

I was once told that thoe from the republic of Ireland find 'Eire' offensive. Is this true? i was born in England, raised in Ireland then moved to Wales. I consider myself Welsh.

UK I think, LineRunner. Unless there is another.

I always find their statuses (statii????) confusing I must say.

And what about St Helena, Tristan da Cunha etc? Do they have UK passports? Can they rock up and live here? Can the Falkland islanders? Can the Pitcairn Islanders?

My dcs have asked what nationality they are. They were born in Scotland, but Dh and I are English which is where we now all live.

I tell them they're British, part Scottish due to that being their place of birth, part English as that is where they live and where both their parents were born but to be honest I don't really know .

I suspect if they ever go travelling when older they will choose to be known as Scottish though .

My Grandparents were Irish and Dh's Welsh just to add to the mix.