to think that doctors shouldn't go on strike over pension changes

[starwarrior]

Why shouldn't they just suck it up like the rest of us?

It is just bullshit that the private sector workers are paying for public sector pensions. The public sector pensions scheme is sustainable and has been before the proposed change. Public sector pensions are not like private sector, public sector workers defer some of their pay until pension age. It is their pay from their working lives not tax money from private sector workers.

Go look at interest rates. Projections were based on rates being much higher. At the current rate of interest rates, yes private sector workers ARE subsidising public sector pensions. A sustained period of such low interest rates, does mean that there is a problem, in view of an aging population living longer. If rates do rise, that will change, but at the moment given the Euro situation and the dipping of share value that is not the case. It also means that public sector pensions are worth even more in comparison to the private sector, though admittedly not in actual worth.

I do question why, if doctors hate their job that much and want to whine about it, don't they change their job. Is it perhaps because they have set themselves up for a lifestyle based on their income that they couldn't get elsewhere and can't leave as they are tied in by debt?

If its that bad, just leave, instead of whining. No one is forcing you to be a doctor. If you think your lifestyle would be so much better doing something else, go and do that for your own well being rather than playing the martyr and taking that out on patients.

The public sector pensions scheme is sustainable..

Really?

Then why did the Treasury have to top up unfunded public sector schemes by £4bn in 2010?

Where do people who are saying that private sector workers don't have to contribute think that money comes from?

public sector workers defer some of their pay until pension age.

So they're being paid a reduced salary while in employment?

In comparison to the equivalent position in the private sector yes. Public sector workers also pay taxes on top of their pension contributions.

HmmThinkingAbout It, if it's that bad in the private sector, why don't you get a public sector job as, say, a doctor? Or would that mean going to uni for seven years, putting up with long hours and stressful situations etc (see above). Plus having people resenting paying for your pensions.

Shelley, the money comes from taxes, which doctors pay too.

We're going round in circles here.

And the changes in 2010... Made the system sustainable. That is what I was talking about. The strike is over the new, unnecessary and arbitrary changes which are just a thinly veiled pay cut which is palatable to the general public who can be whipped up into a lather so that they bully doctors about what they are/aren't allowed to strike about...

I'm not a doctor btw. I just support the strike.

Because I don't want to work purely for money. Thanks.

And the right to strike generally... And workers rights, fair pay and pensions... You know all the general freedom hating stuff...

And thats what doctors do?

In comparison to the equivalent position in the private sector yes.

Public sector paid less than private for an equivalent job?

Bollocks.

Well by the sound of all the whining and martyrdom, it sure sounds like it.

Shelley - my dad does the same job in the NHS and the private sector, his wage in the private sector is much higher, his pension in the NHS is much better. If you look at average wages and compare the two the public sector has better pay. If you look at equivalent positions and compare the two the private sector has better pay because the low skilled jobs have been outsourced to the private sector and they pull down the average wages for the sector. Public sector workers are normally skilled and if you compare the same work public sector workers, particularly doctors salaries are lower in the NHS than in private practice.

Shelley, the money comes from taxes, which doctors pay too.

Absolutely.

So why aren't those same taxes used to inflate private sector funds, too, instead of those pension funds just being pillaged by the Treasury?

There's a much loved phrase often repeated parrot fashion here: "race to the bottom...". That's exactly what some public sector workers are encouraging in the private sector; the more money taken from Treasury coffers to prop up public pesnions, the more is required in taxes and so the less is available for everyone else to save for their old age.

not all public sector pensions are sustainable, but the doctors, nurses and teachers pensions are all in the black.

maybe just maybe the gov should look at changing those that aren't sustainable and leave the rest alone.

AAh, all becomes clear, Offred. I have been wondering why people think public sector workers get paid so much.

It just doesn't chime with my own experience of the public/private sectors, but that is admittedly limited.

Shelly that is just a stupid argument. The problems with the tax system are down to private sector bosses using tax avoidance and evasion tactics to reduce the tax burden on the profits they make. There are some public sector employees who may be in a position to use some of these methods too but the problem is caused by the private sector not the public sector. Illegal tax evasion year on year has been more than budget deficit for a long time. The problem is not spending but the wealthy elite in the private sector laughing their way to the bank with all the cash.

Boneyback - surely the reason for the better off professions being in the black is to top up the worse off ones within the public sector scheme?

Well Shelley, I am in favour of higher taxes for all those who can afford them. And don't forget that the government gets back a lot of the money paid into the public sector, because public sector workers also pay taxes!

Imagine a butcher's shop and a bakery, next door to each other on the High Street (some of us can remember the old high streets). It's like the butcher saying 'I don't want to pay my taxes because that might mean the baker (where I buy my bread) gets a better pension than I do.' Society means that we all contribute and value the contributions of others, doesn't it?

Sorry if I sound like your grandma. I'm probably old enough ...

What we need to do is vote for a government that has more sensible priorities, imo, and knows what is important to people.

Public sector workers contribute their labour directly for the benefit of the state and society. Private sector workers don't. That is why they don't get a public sector pension. If the private sector does not clear up it's own mess and pay for the things it takes from the economy the public sector invariably clears up a variety of messes for it such as the tax credits and state pension system which allows and facilitates the private sector to syphon off increasing levels of private profit.

Offred, there is a problem with tax evasion. I do not however believe it is confined to elite businessmen nor the private sector. Its throughout society. Its just one is deemed acceptable and one isn't because of the amounts involved. I personally don't think that you should be treated differently. So when anyone comes out with the cliche lines like that, I tend to go whatever. Its easy to blame people with money and not take any level of responsibility else where. I think people should be treated equally and there should be a balance within society to avoid problems. Pension schemes like this do little for that.

What are "elite businessmen" FGS, they are "the private sector". Like the government runs the public sector the elite businessmen run the private sector.

If the private sector does not clear up it's own mess and pay for the things it takes from the economy the public sector

Oh right. Your one of THEM. You really speak to the army of people who work for small businesses.

I haven't spoken about small businesses. would you like to hear what I think?