to think that doctors shouldn't go on strike over pension changes

[starwarrior]

Why shouldn't they just suck it up like the rest of us?

monkeymona there will never be a recruitment problem. People are falling over themselves to get into medical school and there are masses of just as highly qualified potential students who could take their place. It is one of the very few professions which guarantee 100% employment, once qualified.

They have every right to strike but they won't get much sympathy from most of the general public.

Historically public sector pensions were set high because salaries were lower (than private sector). Now salaries are comparable, so pensions should be, too.
Defined benefit schemes are unaffordable, as witnessed by how few private sector workers enjoy a definied benefit scheme anymore.
I can totally understand why folk are cross- they are being expected to pay more for their pension. But their cannot be such a huge disparity between public and private sectors.
If we want an NHS then we need to get best value for the limited resources we have.

y'think mirry2?, they have the support of most of this thread! we are general public too!

I didn't realise that everyone else in the public sector was 'sucking it up'.

I must have been getting confused about why all the teachers, civil servants, prison workers, police officers and other NHS staff have been going on strikes (or protest marches in the case of the police).

Silly me, I thought it was about pensions.

Why should they suck it up? Where would you b,e op without a doctor? Why not make the profession totally unattractive so we just get dunderheads treating us?

They perform an outstanding public service in the face of very difficult circumstances. Eg Fri/Sat night in A and E. It 's the public services that keep the country on it's feet. They should be honoured rather tha abused for performing a worthwhile public service.

Isn't the raise in pension contributions more do do with the fact the government are trying to raise surplus money than actually anything do do with pensions. I for one will be totally supporting my wonderful GP's

They're taking a much bigger hit than teachers (from a position of higher contributions in the first place).

Is any public sector strike ever OK?

This thread isn't representative. I would really doubt that the general public would support the doctors and I think it would cause damage to the profession as well as division within the profession.

Mirry, you are right to say dr's are highly employable - but they are also very mobile. Over the past few years, more than a dozen of my DH's colleagues have emigrated to countries where they can earn more, have a better standard of living, better weather and, they feel, more respect.

a lot of the general public work in the public sector and know first hand what it's like to be shat on from a height, I'm sure there's lots of teachers and police workers etc who will understand exactly where the doctors are comming from!

IABVU because I work in the NHS, member of Unison, and voted to go on strike a few years ago
But worried about my 78 yr old mother who's already had hip replacement op cancelled once.

Given that most doctors earn a lot more than the average, Mirry2 has a good point about the public probably not being too impressed by them striking.

But as I understand it, the strike will only affect non-urgent care, so people who have life-threatening conditions should still be treated.

I'm a doctor. The pension is currently in surplus and paying £2 billion into the treasury every year. We agreed changes in 2008 to make our pension sustainable and now they want to impose a new one on us. The increased contributions won't actually go into our pension and we will never see the benefits. If they want us to pay more tax, then put taxes up but don't pretend it's a pension problem when it isn't. I have accepted pay freezes and working until I'm 68 but I don't see why we should be paying this extra tax when similarly paid civil servants are not.

Doctors do not pay 26% of their wages into their pension - some may have to pay up to 14.5% in future according to the BMA.

From the Guardian article:

By 2014, some doctors will have 14.5% deducted from their pay for their pensions, compared with 7.35% for senior civil servants on similar salaries, to receive similar pensions, said the BMA.

As for the high pensions/low wages thing which has supposedly been resolved. As a public worker. I have never ever had

a bonus
a car
any shares
private health
even feckin' tea or coffee. I get my salary and that's it. Nothing extra ever.

Does that equal out the salary argument at all? DH gets car, private petrol, mobile, shares, bonus scheme, private health.

Mirry, you're wrong about 100% guaranteed employment - my sister's a doctor & has had periods of not being able to find work.

Lyndie, very well said. Pretty much word for word what gets discussed round our dinner table frequently.

BUT if you look at actuarial valuation of the schemes - i.e. look at how much you'd have to save to get the same retirement income many public sector workers will get - then how can anyone possibly say that it's sustainable?
It's precisely becuase I value the public sector that I think pension reform has to happen: if it doesn't then in a very few years time we won't be able to afford many of our public services anymore.

Even have to pay for Christmas Party

Bue, my DH does pay 26%, and will have to pay 28.5%. He is a GP and pays both employer and employee contribution himself. The healthboard he is contracted to does not pay the employer contribution.... this is the normal situation for GP's.

Lyndie, mypoint exactly. I am a teacher, and it is exactly the same thing for us. The pension is sustainable. we will see no benefit from the increases. So it is actually a tax peddled to the likes of Daily Wail as a gold plated pension.

I support the strike.

The pension changes to me are akin to my mortgage company telling me my payments are going up and I will be paying for longer. Ie, not what I signed up for.

I noticed a significant increase in ni payments from my wage this month too.

YABU

I fully support the doctors.

Nobody should be "sucking up" attacks to their working conditions.

I'd be interested to know how many on this thread are doctors.

Mirry, bollocks that doctors have guaranteed employment. I know two at the moment who have been made redundant from their NHS jobs.

Imagine a country without doctors................ Let's just hammer them to make sure it happens