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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that doctors shouldn't go on strike over pension changes

731 replies

starwarrior · 30/05/2012 18:15

Why shouldn't they just suck it up like the rest of us?

OP posts:
hiveofbees · 02/06/2012 18:20

Is it just doctors that you feel that way about or is it the whole public sector?

mummyistheword · 02/06/2012 18:26

For what it's worth I'm a teacher......maybe the same peeps who diss the docs will diss me too! I can guess......too much holiday.....erm.....what else, striking teachers mean working parents have to take unpaid leave or use up hols to shock horror care for their children......I digress indeed but come on. Average doctors don't earn 100k!!! Bum and pants I was supposed to bow out wasn't I. Doctors are not gods, just brainy high qualified people.

Iteotwawki · 02/06/2012 19:50

It's been a while since we had a doctor bashing thread. I see the daily mail has done a good job of convincing everyone that doctors earn in excess of £100k, work 3 day weeks and play golf on NHS time.

I'm a doctor. When I was working in the UK, it took me 10 years working to get to the salary ranges you describe - my max yearly gross was £74k at the end. My medical friends were earning similar amounts to me. Not one sent their kids to private school, not one had a second home and although most of us had accrued plenty of annual leave, there was too much pressure on achieving targets to allow anyone the time to take it. I wasn't allowed to take annual leave on my wedding day until a friend rescued me at literally the last minute by swapping call shifts (wedding planned based on the rota I had been mailed a few months prior which was then changed to a completely different one by the time I started that job).

I am also of the vintage that worked 72h shifts (arriving at work at 8am Saturday, leaving at 9pm Monday) with little prospect of breaks or meals. Did that one in every 2 weekends for a bit, plus one 8am weekday to 8pm the following weekday per week. I'm glad those patterns have changed because honestly I don't think people are safe working those hours.

Find me another profession that expects so much of its training staff for 7-10 years with the level of responsibility demanded. The reason we all stuck it out was the job satisfaction (now going as the NHS crumbles), the prospect of a job with reasonable hours and a good salary at the end of it (now gone - I was unemployed at the end of my training as there weren't any jobs available due to the hiring freeze).

I left, haven't looked back. I also took my pension with me - except they made a mistake with the first calculation so I requested a recalculation including a few of my jobs (including the higher salary at the end) - which they did. In the meantime having changed the calculation parameters (RPI /CPI) so I received £10k less than the first attempt. The changes weren't meant to be applied retrospectively but I took the offer based on the thought that if I didn't take it then, it wouldn't exist by the time I reach retirement.

I don't see why people shouldn't complain about being asked to work longer, pay more and receive less at the end than they originally signed up for.

To anyone who's had a worry over older grandparents taking care of their babies while they work - you are really ok with an older doctor (ie late sixties) operating on them? Anaesthetising them?

For the record, not that it's anyone else's concern, I voted Labour at the last election.

Doctors will read this and recognise the sentiments. Non doctors will say So? You knew what you were signing up for when you chose medicine as a profession. You know what? I knew what I was signing up for with my pension scheme too.

LaCiccolina · 02/06/2012 20:22

You still have the chance due to the professional qualifications and education levels of earning 75k. Many people are smart and qualified in their roles but don't have the chances of 75k a year or close either on their own or in partnerships.

Why should a pension agreed 20years or frankly any time frame still have to stand now and in the future without change? That makes zero sense. Any firm can change terms of contracts and or pensions or any other contract with adequate notice. I do not see this as any different. I think these pensions and any other area of public sector should be eligible for change and ongoing change. Im not saying all change is good - some will be some won't but all should be up for the change. Why on earth should nothing alter ever just because its always been so?

The logic is not only flawed its ridiculous.

1950sHousewife · 02/06/2012 20:22

Iteo - good post.

Can I ask what you do now? How did you go about changing? I have many friends who are doctors who are wanting to escape, but have no idea how!

ByTheWay1 · 02/06/2012 20:41

We can't afford to pay for the system as it stands - for any public sector staff (of which I am one). What do we do - keep paying out at rates required by original contracts and the country goes bust unless we raise taxes for all?

The pot of money is FIXED - the number of people living well into retirement is WAY above prior expectations - how do people expect we pay for things to continue as they are now - there is nowhere else to magic the money from.

Iteotwawki · 02/06/2012 20:47

1950s - I'm still a doctor (anaesthetist) but I emigrated to NZ. At least 1/3 of my department are English migrants.

HmmThinkingAboutIt · 02/06/2012 23:10

Doctors with all that education, and no idea how to leave the profession. Hmm... yes.

justcheckingitout · 02/06/2012 23:26

Well am just back from my second 13 HR shift of the Bank Holiday weekend. Got a bit drenched as the weather changed a bit since 8 am when I started.
Had to pop to late night tesco to get a sandwich and drink as had only had one diet coke and no food all day.
Bering a doctors draws on your skills of trying your best and helping others.. Often people don't see what you do , you have to try to do your best whatever the circa.
Anyway gotta sleep got another 13 hourer tomorrow .. Oh yes we knew all this before blah blah..
If you bash us when we really want to help, ruin our reputation and demoralise us, we will go elsewhere and you'll be left with people who have a more manager style outlook or are just a bit more selfish.. Good luck with that!

HmmThinkingAboutIt · 02/06/2012 23:28

Don't close the door behind you.

justcheckingitout · 02/06/2012 23:30

What does that mean?

Offred · 02/06/2012 23:31

Bytheway - bullshit! The doctor's pension scheme is making a surplus!!

Offred · 02/06/2012 23:35

Average gps don't earn 100k either. Top doctors may earn that much by the end of their careers. Most never reach that level.

justcheckingitout · 02/06/2012 23:39

Yeah I am thinking of having a career change tbh

mummyistheword · 02/06/2012 23:46

I'm bowing back in. Just thought I'd mention the huge salary dh earns as gp and in my previous post if anyone read it re the tax? The huge amounts of tax on high salaries? I'm not saying that high earners shouldnt pay more tax before you all get irate about that too.....just the four figure monthly deductions......so gps care for people, and then contribute hugely financially back to society as well......off I go again, teething toddler this time. By the way dh busy now in over paid out of hours doc job, as the huge gp salary can't finance my handbag habit. hope next shift ok justcheckingitout. X I bet all the patients you see this bank hol will be grateful someone clever and kind is able to care for them when they need it most, you all do an amazing job, you deserve a huge pension! Maybe it will end up being a bit less.....my teacher one is fairly naff but I bet you keep on working those bank hols and being clever and kind to total strangers.

Aboutlastnight · 03/06/2012 04:39

Mummy I am at work at the moment. Many of us contribute to society and pay tax.

Solopower · 03/06/2012 08:36

Don't go, Justcheckingitout. Most of us really appreciate the amazing job that doctors do. Thanks to you all.

maples · 03/06/2012 08:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mummyistheword · 03/06/2012 08:42

Yes indeed about. my point in brief was just that many on here have berated the high salaries and I am merely suggesting thats a bit short sighted as high salaries mean lots of tax contributions, and docs pay more tax a month than some earn so why dig at them just because they earn a lot. I pay tax too.

maples · 03/06/2012 08:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Offred · 03/06/2012 08:56

Do you not think it is the better off, better educated and establishment people who carry the most sway in standing up for ordinary people who are all having their pension entitlements slowly eroded by capitalism? Just don't get why turkeys are so keen to vote for Christmas here. "I haven't got it so why should you?" just makes everyone have fuck all.

flatpackhamster · 03/06/2012 09:03

Offred

Do you not think it is the better off, better educated and establishment people who carry the most sway in standing up for ordinary people who are all having their pension entitlements slowly eroded by capitalism? Just don't get why turkeys are so keen to vote for Christmas here. "I haven't got it so why should you?" just makes everyone have fuck all.

I don't think anyone's saying that doctors shouldn't have pensions. What's been said time and time again on this thread is that average earners in the private sector can't afford to save for their own retirement and they're being expected to save for public sector workers' retirement.

By any definition of the word 'fair', that isn't.

Solopower · 03/06/2012 09:12

Flatpack - no private sector workers are not being expected to save for public sector workers' retirement. They're simply being asked to pay their taxes.

Offred · 03/06/2012 09:12

This thread is about how doctors shouldn't go on strike about pensions. Union rules mean strikes are restricted to very specific circumstances but I know that many of the doctors I know will be out because of the principle of the erosion of pensions and public services not because they are grasping.

Solopower · 03/06/2012 09:14

Offred and in that way they are standing up for all of us, including private sector workers. It doesn't benefit anyone to let the government diminish the amount of money they spend on the NHS, does it?

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